doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com P.Webley and Son Double Rifle 577 Express (value)

Hello all, new to the site and needed some help. I have a double rifle that I am sending to an auction company here in Ontario Canada and I can't find much relating to value. Need at least a starting point.
It has the P. Wesley and son name and the Shaftsbury address. 577 Express. Bores are bright as anything I have seen. There may be indications that the barrel was polished at some point and blackened, as the address is tough to read.
New here so I am not sure how to add pics. Can someone indicate how to add pics and I will follow up with them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

No one? Nothing.... need some help from the experts!!

I'm also Canadian and have followed the double shotgun market for the last 10 years.

If I was trying to sell the above gun and wanted to get the best outcome for me, I would get it to sale in the US. Canadian market for vintage SxS is typically 25-30% less than US. The collapse of our dollar against the US dollar in the last two years has just exaggerated that to our benefit if you are selling. The market for a gun like that is small in the US....it's minuscule up here.

Completely agree Canvasback, any idea on the broker fees or who would actually do that?

I have sent several guns in the last 18 months to the US via Borderview, based in the Greater Vancouver area. The have offices on both sides, and specialize in this. Although mostly I think their business is product coming north.

Rough cost is around $300-$400 US all in, IIRC, and that includes a percentage charged on gun value. But I'm a bit hazy as I have been the seller and the buyer (who I know well) is picking up the tab. Sending it to an auction house on spec would be different, but how, I don't know.

So $400 US sounds like a lot until you start doing the numbers on a gun worth more than $1500 US. Because up here, a $1500 US SxS shotgun will get you $1100 Canadian (which is $850 US). (Those are my estimates). Obviously as you go higher in value, the logic becomes more and more unassailable.

One difficulty to selling direct to a buyer is the common expectation in the US for a 3 day inspection period. Obviously, that becomes logistically impossible. Dealers and auction houses again would be a bit different.

If I was really set on doing it, I would get a complete set of measurements together, a great set of photos that clearly show both the good and the bad, and I would get in touch with Kirby Hoyt at Vintage Doubles.

As far as US value goes, I would get on the Nitro Express forums (dedicated to double rifles) and talk with those guys.

Thanks for all the info. much appreciated.

Interesting gun. Why are you selling and how much do you want?

LOL Should have said that to start!

All of the usual details are needed to even ballpark the value of this gun.
Pictures of the flats (proofmarks), bore condition, weight and measurements, chamber length (there are at least three lengths of 577 chambers) etc.
Looks like a good gun and the 577BPE is a hoot to shoot - assuming it is not a nitro gun.

Not a nitro for sure, better pics coming. Just had to get a better lens to take clear close shots.

That is the issue Canvasback...value. Tough call, with several emails sent to determine it's value.
Why, i am not a collector, re-loader, black powder shooter so more than likely it would sit for a long time.
I would rather get it in the hand of someone who would appreciate and shoot the old girl. plus pay some bills.

I was pondering wether the Shaftesbury address puts it between 1893 and 1897 when Webley and Scott was formed.
If it is pre 1898, there is no problem selling it in the US but I am not sure about sending it back into Canada as Canvasback mentioned above.
What auction house are you talking to? Do they have an estimate in mind that you don't agree with?

Got two estimates from gun shops, one Ontario and one BC. I am sure they may be a bit under actual....i get it they need to make their money as well.
1. 3900 to 5000
2. 4000 to 6000

According to Nigel Brown's British Gunmakers, the Shaftesbury address was in use between 1894 and 1897, which would suggest this would qualify as antique, vastly simplifying export into the US.

mid 1890s makes sense considering the style of the gun.
Any loading information that might be on the gun such as "6 drams powder, 560grs bullet" would be very helpful in determining the intended use.
I would say this would retail in the US between 6 and 12k, depending on the sales channel used (auction, retailer, direct) and the item's specifics. Expect to get less than that (commission, etc).
Import in the US would not be too bad, except that there is no formal proof for the date of manufacturing (such as a maker's letter).

Good luck with this!
WC-

I would be interested in getting more information on the gun. I am interested in buying it.

Swampman

Having had experience selling this type of double rifle in the past, I would say $3000-4000 would be realistic.

IMO your estimates are low. $7500 - 11
,500, depending on seen condition is more appropriate.