doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need a better classic

Stan,
Call Dewey Vicknair, Abe Chaber or Paul Hodgins, and tell them your Elsie needs work.

Let us know how it goes for you.

Dewey actually told you exactly how he felt about LC Smiths, right here, but, you seem to have forgotten:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post424610


Best,
Ted

There's a whole lot of difference between one brand of American double, and what you said.

"A lot of the really good gunsmiths won't even touch American double guns anymore".

I've forgotten nothing about what he said, nor what you recently said above. Are you saying now that they only won't touch Smiths, or do you mean all American double guns? Last time I checked there were a whole lot more makes of American doubles than just L C Smiths. Dewey regularly does work on Foxes, and has had one of mine in his shop. You gonna tell me that Dewey, Abe and Paul won't touch any American doubles, or is it now just Smiths?

SRH

British, Continental or American. It doesn't really matter which. Buy the gun, not the name (or country of origin).

Ah, we are going to split some hairs today, eh Stan? Ok.

Let's say, hypotheticlly, your truck gun needed a restock, Stan.

Are you going to send it to Dewey? How 'bout rebarreling the same gun? You going to send it to Dewey?

Why not?

Now, simply pencil in the name of most American doubles where I wrote truck gun. Get them all, like Stevens, Savage, Cresent, Tobin, Fultons, Winchester 24s, all of them.

It would take a pretty special example of most of them, to be worth hiring the likes of Dewey, or, the others, Stan. Most American doubles were low cost implements, and not worth putting talent like that into.

You get that, right Stan?

Most, Stan. That isn't to say that I believe that the tarted up versions of the same American impliments are better than the field grades. I don't. But, the good 'smiths can afford to spend their time chroming those turds, should they choose to, and the check clears. And at the end of the day, I think the case could be made that there wasn't an American gun that could compare to the likes of a typical English or continental built A&D boxlock, although a couple got close, the H&R version of the same, and the Remington 1894 coming to mind.


The talented guys do have better things to do, Stan. Some of them will actually tell you that. They tend toward honesty.

Best,
Ted

No argument with most of that, and we're not wanting to split hairs ....... just be accurate in our statements. Next time maybe you should specify brands instead of making such sweeping blanket statements. If you mean Smith and Stevens, and not all American doubles.

However, given your tendency to disparage American made guns in general, I understand that it will be tough for you.

Carry on, SRH

Stan,
I've never disparaged the following American guns:
Ljutic.
Kolar.
CSMC A10.
For that matter, CSMC RBL.
Remington 32.

Know why?

They aren't crap.

Sweeping blanket statements are one thing, but, crap is crap.

Glad I could help.

Best,
Ted

Okay. My bad, vintage American doubles. My experience with A10s and RBLs are admittedly a small sample, but they are both batting very low in "out the door quality control". Never owned either, but shooting with guys who do, I've seen way too many problems with new guns, owned by the initial buyers.

SRH

Small sample for me too. Have seen a single problem out of 6-8 guns, expeditiously handled by the factory, by the way.
I'm not buying, just haven't seen enough bad to get a sour taste as of now. I'm open to possibilities.

So, Remington 32s aren't vintage? A lot of guys have been shooting those guns at my club for as long as I've been alive and they seem to be the Timex of club guns.
Really.

Vintage? Ithacas are good, once you get to 2 3/4" spec guns. I know a lot of guys consider them less than asthetically pleasing, but, I can't look at the gun when I'm shooting a bird, try as I might, so, I don't care how they look, just how they fit.
Hey, a lot of guys probably don't like the music I listen to, either. I'm OK with that.
NIDs are a sound design, well put together, by a factory that cared, as is the Nitro.
Few issues. That is what I like the best in an old gun, not styling.

George Hoenig is right on about a lot of things when it comes to what works and what really doesn't on guns. If every guy who came here wondering how much money they should throw at their American classic would take the time to read what Dewey said about a few of them, there would likely be fewer times when the term "money pit' was seen posted here.
I get queasy when I see some of the answers to guestions that obvious newbies ask here about Grampa's old gun.


Best,
Ted

Ted, the hardware store guns you mentioned are hardly considered by any American double gun enthusiast like most here as classic American doubles. But Parkers, Foxes, L. C. Smiths, and NID Ithacas are. Nobody really expects someone like Dewey Vicknair and his talents to make a Crescent into a Churchill, and holds no animas towards him as a result.

Most all who dabble in this pastime know the shortcomings of the Elsie or Old Reliable, but the fine examples that need some care would probably not be refused out of hand by Dewey or any other great gunsmith at his level just because, the curmudgeons of the trade being the exceptions.
JR

I just look at the poorly finished guts on my Ithaca, my buddy's Fox, another friend's Lefever 'automatic hammerless' and compare that image to some of the pics of high grade English, French, Italian and German made guns that people share on this board and just shake my head.

Well made roughed out tools? Definitely

Classics? Not so much.

They work, they shoot. That's good enough for me, I guess.