doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Farquharson

I just acquired this rifle. 30-40 Krag. No markings as to manufacturer at all (which according to some of the books that is not that unusual). I think the drop points are kind of cool. Tell me what you think or have questions about.....

I like it. I too think the drop points are cool. Any pictures of the barrel/sights and proofs?

I will get more pics and certainly share them. The buttplate is a trap of the style you often seen with engraving and checkering. The cheek piece has the very fine shadow line cut around its edge. The rifle has been rebarreled so I don't expect there are any under the forearm. The forearm is original and the barrel fits it pretty well. The front sight is pretty ordinary and the front barrel swivel is missing.

Stock has lovely proportions, reminiscent of Shelhamer, although I don't recall him using drop points. Might look for Niedner # on barrel under forearm, but I believe they usually marked top of barrel?

If you have to have a rebarreled Farquharson, a .30-40 is about perfect! And the tang sight is a neat extra. Methinks somebody meant to hunt something!

Here are 3 detail pictures. I share so that maybe we can further determine maker and era:
Buttplate is marked Germany and trade available in the early 20th century.
The grip cap also available to the trade in the early 2oth century. Common English scroll engaved
The last is of the cheekpiece and you can see the detail of the cut shadow line. If anything, this may stir some thoughts as to who did this detail:

Can you tell me what make and model tang sight that is?

Thanks.

Maybe a customized version of Lyman 103 tang sight?

I would have to agree that it is some kind of customized Lyman sight. But I must also say that it is very well done. It looks like it came from the factory so maybe Lyman actually made them. Another interesting thing is that there isn't any exposed screw to hold it on to the rifle tang. The screw must come up from under the top tang and you have to remove the butt stock to get at the screw. I'll take some close ups of it and post when I have a chance.

The grip cap, butt plate, and cheek piece all look like G&H to me.

I think good observations Bill. I have no real idea, but it seems to have Americanized styling points.

Left and center buttplates came off from G&H stocks. Right is unused plate from John Warren, the engraver. [img:center]http://[/img]

Poorhouse,
The butt plate is exactly like the one on the left.
Keep in mind that it is marked twice "Germany". I would imagine that G&H may have acquired their plates from the same supplier.
Now the interesting thing would be if at some point G&H actually stocked this rifle. Whoopee LOL. I looked under the butt plate and there isn't any markings. I haven't removed the gripcap yet. Did G&H mark their 2 pieces stocks and if so where?
A G&H connection would explain the drop points, the fine custom sight, the rear swivel is also the same as found on some of their rifles, and last the no proof marks on the action. The question , and I don't see any pictures on the web , is did G&H use the shadow line detail on the cheek piece.

before I post pics of the rear sight I thought I would share the following picture. This is the forearm on the left side and you can see the wood has been notched out (very professionally) for what I assume had been a scope mount when it had its original barrel. Very much looks like a G&H side mount modification. What do you think:

Here is the rear sight detais. Notice the stop pin on the back of the windage slide which prevents the sight staff from swing forwarded past vertical. Its a detail that is well done.

Great set of pictures LRF.

I wish Mark Bennenson were here. I think he'd say that the cutout in the forearm was for a G&H mount base. My next guess is that the rifle has been rebarreled but that the owner didn't transfer the mount to the new barrel. I know Mark had some G&H single shots with bases attached to the barrel.

Refurbished is a miss leading statement or could be. I am quite confident that the only work done to the rifle has been the rebarreling for what ever reason. The stocks are original and and have not been sanded in the least. The finish has all the correct patina for the rifles apparent age. When the new barrel was added the scope mount was not reattached. The rebarrel job is nice but pretty gunsmithy and not done by a top end custom smith. Its adqueate but not top end.
I did talk to Paul at G&H and asked him to look at thread and its pictures. He did say that stocks made by G&H weren't always marked. He also said that the drop points were something he would think are Griffin&Howe-ish.
Isn't that rear sight neat? Don't see something like that everyday and so 1920ish IMO

Checking my "gun porn" folder, I found these two G&H stocks that have the same cheek piece treatment as yours. Unfortunately, I don't have any more information about them, other than they were made in the 20's.

Thank you Greg, I am not ready to call this a G&H rifle but your share has lifted the corners of my mouth. There sure seems to be a number of points of evidence pointing in the G&H direction.

I did find some pictures of a G&H Farquharson in which the maker of the action also was unknown. It had a G&H serial number and address on the barrel but nothing on the action. So quite similar to this rifle. Wish I had its original barrel.

Thanks for sharing this with us, Lynn. I'll go on record that I believe the sight to be a highly modified Lyman #29�, originally intended for a Savage 1899/99. Whoever modified it did a swell job of removing the forward part of the base that conforms to the 99 top tang, installed knurled opposing windage adjusting screws to replace the inconvenient original slotted head ones, and as you pointed out, the stop pin (which eliminates one of my pet peeves about the sight in that precise vertical "stabilization" is nebulous at best). Attaching it with hidden screws from underneath is obviously necessary, but a neat application nonetheless.

Gray,
Thanks I do agree and actually believed it to originally a #29 1/2, I used 103 as that was very similar and brought up by others. It was not modified by an average smith but of the professional abilities at G&H. The entire application would take some careful fore thought and engineering.
I have not seen any reason to believe it is not a G&H rifle and now I must consider whether it should be restored to its original condition. I will contact G&H and begin discussions on such a project. I would only replace the barrel and the G&H side scope mount.
If anyone has pictures of a singleshot G&H rifle with their side mount I would love to see them.

Antonio,
I sent you a PM with my email address. I will post your pictures for you.

I will shortly be providing evidence that I believe will attribute my rifle to G&H. Thank you Antonio.
In addition I am waiting for pics from Terry B which I am told will be most interesting to look at. Thanks.

I received this PM from Antonio and his picture are below.
I believe that although this rifle #636 is different you should focus on the similarity. In that I mean look at the engraving and especially the engraving right above the lever pin. It is the same as my gun. I believe that although it may be impossible to say my gun is G&H with perfect certainty, there is enough evidence to attribute the gun to G&H. I will let you form your own opinion:

"LRF:

If you send me your full email I will send you pictures of a very similar Griffin and Howe Farquharson that I saw on exhibit at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show by Greg Martin Auctions in 2005. Sorry but I cannot figure out how to attach multiple photos here to this PM. The rifle that I have pictures of was destined for an auction at a later date, probably 2006. I tried on line to search old GM auction postings and got no where so I scanned in the photos that I have and will send them on to you for comparison.

The entire story is that the Rifle is a G&H number 636 in 30/40 and shares many of the same features that your rifle does. The stock and dropper points and checkering are almost identical. However the stock and forend panels are a little different. The engraving on the receiver and the grip cap are very similar. This gun's barrel is marked as G&H and has an integral 1/4 rib with one standing and a folding parade sight(s, banded front sling swivel fixture, and a banded hooded front sight.

Unfortunately, I do not own the gun or know what became of it. Nevertheless, I am sure that your rifle is a G&H based on comparison to this one.

Please post the pictures and this message for the other members of the Forum.

Congratulations on a wonderful purchase,

Antonio"

Well here are some new picturers that Terry Buffum has asked me to share. This is a rifle that Terry did own and was photographed by Michael P. It was engraved by Jos Fugger. Terry believes the butt stock was replaced at some point but the forearm is correct.
Terry if you can add anything please do so. (Nice gun fore sure)
In looking at the action end of the forearm on this rifle validates that the forearm on my rifle is original to G&H. They are very similar.

Terry also provided a picture of a low wall that he once owned and again the photo was take by Michael.
Of not is the barrel mounted G&H scope mount. He does not think G&H did this installation because of the exposed screws which is not G&H usual way of doing this. However Iwill say who ever did do it was not just any common gunsmith but was a skilled craftsman, looks at the perfect alignment of the screws. That takes skill.
But I am sure that this is probably quite similar to what my rifle once looked like.
Again thanks Terry.....Enjoy!

Here are the pictures of the right side of the Low Wall:


And just for interest I was able to buy this sight just today. Pretty much same as on the low wall

Just goes to show the problem with mounting a scope on a Low Wall, or High Wall, and then trying to stock it to fit.

What do you plan for the sight?

Hi Steven,
As for the sight, I acquired, I have no initial plans. You just don't see these often and what appears to be pretty good condition. If I had a Low Wall it sure could work for it. I may just have to buy a rifle to fit it on or better yet since, I am now retired, is build a gun.
On the subject of building things I am thinking about restoring the Farquharson. At least to re-install the side mount. To do so I have to determine if the current barrel can be used or does it need to be replaced.
I have had much fun doing the research to discover the origin of the rifle and now I will enjoy the project to restore the rifle. Any suggestions will be evaluated.

I have been researching The British Falling Block Breechloading Rifle From 1865" by Jonathan Kirkton. I am wondering what shows on the front of the action when you remove the forend. Where is the serial number located on your rifle? Are there any British Proofs anywhere? I am assuming that the re-barrel was done on this side of the Atlantic.

Hi Paul,
Your questions have been addressed in the whole thread and you may want to read it top down.
However to answer your questions: No markings on action at all. No serial number on action at all. No proof marks. Those answers and other points of discovery are now attributing the rifle to G&H. G&H serial numbered their guns on the barrel and the barrel on this rifle is not original. The G&H barrel lost to time. Also no proof marks because we don't proof mark guns in the USA.
Back in the early 1900's G&H bought these actions, most likely from Francotta, and barreled and stocked them for sale to their customers.
If you read the whole thread you will learn even more.

Saw this G&H mount for sale recently
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100786466

m-4

You may find that the rear sight is attached with a screw underneath the windage slide.
Farquharsons have a screw right where your sight is and there isn't much real estate underneath to put screws coming from the underside especially on a top tang safety 3-C action.
Maybe adjust your windage all the way out and see if there is anything underneath it.
I am thinking that the action was originally used on a complete British rifle and not brought into G&H as a new action. The engraving and finish on the action is very typical of the British trade Farqs.

Huvius,
You may be correct on the sight attachment method and I will look and let you know.

I do not think the action was ever on a British or European gun because of the total lack of any marks or proof marks. If you read the whole thread you will see pics of another known G&H Farquharson which has the same engraving, almost identical. G&H serial numbered and marked their guns on the barrel, as you probably know.

I looked at the sight mount. I removed the windage slide and the typical screw Huvius mentioned, is located there. However there is not obvious screw holding the sight base on. I would have to remove the buttstock, which I have no plans to do so, to finally determine the method used.

At one time in my Farquharson rifle's life it had a different barrel and also it appears it had a scope. The forearm has a section cut out which appears to be very similar to a G&H side mount. I have been contemplating what to do with this, should I make a new mount or piece in a section of wood.
To the first point I thought maybe see if I could design the mount and then make a try prototype. As I own a couple of 3D printers for my camera products company designing in CAD and then printing the results seemed to be worth a small investment of time. It the results looks good then all I have to do is machine the mount from steel.
Below is a series of pictures. Let me know what you think. (Green material was in the printer already so that is why the mount is green):






Please note that in the last picture the G&H mount and rings are off another rifle I have and in actual application I would use a different set that has the correct height for this rifle.

What is the present caliber/cartridge of this rifle??
Mike

Let's hope it looks better in blued steel...LOL

How does it feel when you shoulder it? To my eye, the scope looks uncomfortably high and awkward, but perhaps that is necessary with style of mount. If it feels good, then it looks functional. Case colors might be nice.

Brent did you miss this last comment in my post?

Indeed, I did. I didn't notice anything below the photos.
Sorry about that.

Ric, funny Ha Ha. If I make it and then you decide you would want to buy it I can arrange to blue it so that it is that awful red looking color you see.

Brent

Thanks for looking

Lynn, you do know that if there was a woman in your house you would not be using that Christmass table cloth now.

Seriously, how long does it take for your 3-D printer to make that pattern?

Print time is 1.5 hours. Then you fit, modify the design and try again. The one in the picture is the second version. Now I am think why do I need to use a G&H set of rings. Maybe I'll just make everything because I can make it a lot more compact and just for this rifle.
We will see.
By the way that is my best table cloth and I put it out in your honor when you came over and visited a week ago. I thought it worked fine for laying out and viewing my recent acquisitions.