doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help me choose Webley & Scott or Merkel 47e?

Jagermeister is merely a tire kicker. He has taken us down this path several times in the past, but still doesn't own even one double gun. His only shotgun is a short barreled late model Ithaca Model 37 pump, but recently he went back to claiming to own two short barreled Ithaca Model 37 pump shotguns. Since this is the internet, I suppose I could claim to own Bo Whoop and the Czars Parker. But claiming to own guns that I don't would be pathetic on so many levels.

This is a guy who actually rents guns, including a Chinese .22 LR bolt action. The last time he took us on one of his window shopping trips, it was for an Ithaca NID 20 gauge which he told us he had on layaway... because he couldn't afford to buy it outright. Several weeks later, he said he had to let the Ithaca NID go because he needed the funds to buy some cheap semi-auto handgun. I got a kick out of his notion about buying the 25" barreled gun because the short barrels will make him look taller. I guess that explains the short barreled Ithaca pump. Yet this self-professed short guy was also considering a W&S with a 15" LOP. Sounds a bit like gunfitting for a chimpanzee. But it appears his final decision was a 4lb. 5oz. single shot 20 gauge. That ought to be a good gun to burn up those buckets of 12 gauge slugs. Maybe he ought to consider renting a Chinese Derringer to cover all of his needs. At least he'd finally have a double barreled gun.

A gun made in 1989, unless reproofed, would not have the fleur de lys or "steel shot" as a proofmark. Those marks first appeared in 2005.

A 20ga double that weighs under 5#? Must not be a fisherman's scale. They always weigh heavy. I'm thinking that one weighs light.

If the W&S is one of the modern 700 series guns (likely, from the tons proofmarks), then it won't have separate strikers. My model 400 (predecessor of the 700 series) does have disc-set strikers. So it's possible this W&S has them also . . . IF it had been reproofed sometime between 1954 and the late 80's.

Well-meaning participants in this discussion have been had. Someone who walks out of a gunshop door with what would have to be a single-shot at the stated weight of 4.5 lbs. had no intentions of ever spending $2-3K on a fine double. He who claims that a bucket full of slugs "wags the tail" in influencing a decision of buying a "bird gun", either a Merkel or W&S, has got to be kidding us and/or himself.

It looks like a "toy" yet the barrel states Proof Tested 20ga 2&3/4" Chamber. The magazine tube holds 4 cartridges. The barrel is alloy with four position choke adjustment knob at the end. The barrel must be steel lined because inside has mirror like finish found on typical shotgun. The wood is walnut finished off with Jostam pad. Neat light pump that can be hunted with few times a year using RST 3/4oz 20 gauge shells. When I see something interesting I have never seen before I buy it.

A gun made in 1989, unless reproofed, would not have the fleur de lys or "steel shot" as a proofmark. Those marks first appeared in 2005.

As Vol suggested the Birminham gun handled better than the rest. I meant to check if Merkel 47E had "Boy Scout" monogram on flats but never got past taking the for end off. When new or as new those modern mass-produced German doubles are notoriously hard to break down and even harder to put together. I didn't want to leave young fella at the counter with gun broken down into three pieces. There was no point because I would have picked Webley & Scott anyway. Not sure what model the W&S was but there was fairly good amount of light engraving, but no disk strikers. It was made sometime after WWII as 2&3/4" 3&1/4 tons per square inch suggest. I would guess 1950s when shorter barrel and Churchill rib were still in vogue. Great little knockabout rainy day gun.

PS. What is it they say? If you want good used game gun and have to choose between European or British and guns are of roughly same finish/quality you buy British gun. If you want affordable car insurance you get Geico?

I'm going to quote me, because nothing you have posted makes what I said untrue.

A sub 5lb 20 gauge would only be really cool if you had to hike doubletime for 6-8 hours, through country that had no birds, and no possibility of any shooting.

I'd tell you to get some practice at the range with it, but, I suspect that would invite a really bad headache. Maybe take two asprin before going?

Truly, Good Luck.

Best,
Ted

I agree it's not a dove gun or range gun, but rough shooting gun. By rough shooting I mean very long nature walk with few shots fired cotton tail, swamp rabbit,..... or squirrel being the usual game. It is a half a cart of groceries from Walmart curio gun or poor man's Ithaca 37 Ultrafeatherweight. I think it was made by famous American aluminum foil maker.