doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Johann Kalezky

Raimey,

see here from the 1910 Burgsm�ller catalog.
The text in brief: we are constantly getting requests for special chamberings, from customers abroad. We can do this, for firm orders, pre-payment, special price, longer delivery time....

I'm well aware of such, but it is all predicated on it not originally being a 45-70. I believe to have been altered well prior to WWII. I wonder what Fred Adolph was doing in 1909?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Ah, you mean Fred Adolph picked it up while visiting Vienna in 1909, had it rechambered to .45-70, duly brought it to the Vienna proofhouse and then exported it to the USofA??

I have had my share of speculation and will better stop here. Any further clues must come from inspection of the gun and the case, obviously custom-made for the gun.
Or hopefully Oshans has some more knowledge about the rifle's history?
fuhrmann

Once again, I would really like to see this "original language "..!

Gunwolf

Here the cartridge names, as defined by my late father, many years ago.
From left to right:
.45-70
11,5x50R Werndl M67
11,5x40R Mauser base
11,5x50R (Mauser base or Bavarian Werder)
11,5x60R Mauser base
11,5x60R D 450 Express
11,5x63R D 450 Express ??
11,5x65R D 450 Express
11,5x70R D 450 Express
11,5x82,5 D450 Express

Quite a ripping yarn, but you know he immigrated to the U.S. of A. in 1908 after a stent @ one of the firearms merchant in Silesia being previously in Steyr in Austria & Webber in Zurich, Switzerland - according to his story? He may altered it & converted it to funds U.S. of A. to pay for his travel expenses. Wild, rampant speculation I'd say but someone had to have knowledge of the Imperial Eagle and its pre-WWI significance.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Yes, plenty of room for wild speculations!
I'd have more enthusiasm for this theory if the scope would still be there.
Without scope, it looks like a 1945 GI war trophy - you know, most hunting rifles were turned in without the scope then.

fuhrmann

Yeah, I know. I just don't think it was a WWII trophy of war. The glass would have been added later that '00 so is there anything in the manner of mounting glass atop that would warrant a trip back to the Vienna proof facility?

Cheers,

Raimey
sre

Also w/ the Boche(alboche) German sentiment in the U.S. of A. post WWI and forward till after WWII, I find it difficult that someone in the U.S. of A. would have ponied up much for the cobbled together lot. I realize there is Austria & Germany but they get lumped together. This scenario was the bulk of why Fred Adoph lost his shirt, and much more, in the sporting weapons arena.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The idea that it is a WW2 war trophy is not far fetched, at all. When there is a German/Austrian gun, under consideration, that has mounts but no scope, the most likely cause is what furhmann said. Many GI bringbacks were just shot with what ever fit into the chamber. There are several German/Austrian cartridges whose chamber will accept a 45-70 cartridge. A fired case would show which "base" the original cartridge is based on, as would a chamber cast, which at the same time would reveal case length.
Mike