doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Johann Kalezky

Gunwolf,
We usually used Schwarzwild also. The translation guide in the hunting text showed both, and I just wrote Sauwild to match up with Saufeder. I know the animals are color blind, but they see "brightness" and blaze orange shows up very bright. Even though we must wear it here, I still feel insulted. When I started hunting as a boy, we learned that the deer were the ones with 4 legs and antlers; and men were the ones with 2 legs and a rifle. With the new laws, young hunters think men are the ones with blaze orange, and deer are everything else. This is an accident waiting to happen.
Mike

I should have known Ford thrust a sword into something. But Ger, I can appreciate the dissertation on the Hirschfaenger or ornamental blade & but when one is in pursuit of wild game & it is thick bush that would make Cambodia look like Kansas. It matters not which blade I pull from my kit, when the gundogs tie up w/ bobcat, badger, feline, raccoon, etc. & even the Opossum, as long as it be a Puma, etc. to dispatch the issue @ the moment. I fancy the jadgnicker but any long blade would suffice in close quarters. And then there's occasional auto-deer collision where like a group of Coonasses we quickly neutralize & salvage what we can for dinner. This requires a couple of pieces of sharp cold steel.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I have seen it, but maybe before you were born. It was not a Hirsch, but a Reh Bock and the blade was a jagd knicker(?).

Mike, this I've done by my self very often, and it's neccessary I can do it again. The blade is called a Jagdnicker named by the neck of a Reh Bock (nick = Genick). By this way you cut the nerves between the fist and second neck vertebrate immediately.
With a Hirschfaeger it's very dangerous to finish a hunt of a deer, nobody will do this, only on picture is shown this.
When we are hunting Schwarzwild, a "Saufeder" is in use. For the Fangschuss I use a .357Mag. S&W, best results.
Ger

Looking at the photo of Johann Kalezky 45-70; I wouldn't be surprised to find a Ferlach mark or two inside. Raimey, I hope you inspect it in person.

With kind regards,
Jani

.45-70 is on the left, then come a number of German and Austrian 11,5 mm cartridges for comparison.
I'll post the names tomorrow.

fuhrmann

Preliminary Datastring for 1900 - 11.5mm on 1st pass.
266.00.11'5


Final Pass Datastring 1900 & 1909 @ Vienna proof facility & for some reason it passed again in 1909? Final diameter of 11.6mm.
6024.00
1750.09


Parent case headstamp WRA 45-70.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I really hope that Raimey is able to get to see this rifle & inspect the chambers as well as a good chamber cast. If the chambers appear original I bet a casting will reveal it to be other than a 45-70 but maybe close enough that 45-70 will chamber & fire. A good casting & an evening in Dixons book would tell the story! Would also really like to see the blade on that Forestry-Hunting-Shooting Hirschfanger.I think it could be identified in Collecting the edged weapons of Imperial Germany. I have the series & would be glad to help with some good photo's.

m-4

Raimey

a possible reason for the second date with the proofhouse is obtaining the Nitro stamp. I have a similar thing on one of my rifles: first BP proof in Vienna 1896, nitro reproof in 1943 (easily understood because the 1943 marks are so different).

The Nitro proof and the 1909 date might eliminate some of the cartridges in my line-up.

The Vienna proofhouse is still active - maybe they have the old ledgers still?
http://www.bmwfw.gv.at/TechnikUndVermessung/beschussaemter/Seiten/BeschussamtWien.aspx

fuhrmann

But September 13th, 1899 was the 1st date that Nitro proof was available so why wait till 1909 & w/ a purported black powder cartridge of 45-70, why would a Nitro proof be required? Was there a Nitro version of the 45-70 between 1900 & 1909? Yes, the proofhouse still has their ledger as far as I now. I believe Felix Neuberger has had success in obtaining info.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

I can only offer guesses:
the rifle was made and bought with black powder in mind, and proofed accordingly. Around that time, say between 1890 and 1910, there was rapid change in ballistics - nitro powder, jacketed bullets, small calibers, repeating rifles - but also plenty of hunters who did not trust these modern things and wanted to stick to theit trusty smokepoles... Lots of heated debate going on in hunting and shooting journals, maybe worse than today.
So in my eyes it is possible that the rifle's owner at that time was not interested in nitro powder - no need to specify extra proof.
By 1909, he or the next owner changed his mind, and as a good citizen (and maybe still somewhat worried about the destructive risks of nitro powder) he showed up at the proof house...

My feeling is this was originally chambered in some .450 Express variant (Ger proposed this already, 11,5x60R Express), and only altered to .45-70 after it reached the US, after 1945.
Nevertheless, the .45-70 was known and even chambered on special order, so this possibility cannot be excluded - see next post!

Fuhrmann