doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two shell pattern at 25 yards

Bush, note that somewhere between 25 and 30 yards the effective diameters of tight and open choke patterns have a cross-over point. The open choke has passed peak bloom and is withering with increased distance while the tight choke is still blooming.



DDA

I like those blooming full chokes.

SRH

As I would use a Model 21 for almost everything so I wouldn't like how high that pattern is printing. But for a shotgun I would use only as a dedicated upland game gun I would think the higher pattern would be a benefit.

I was at an outdoor pistol range and had to ask the other shooters to back up so I could do 25, which was the farthest mark.

OK, fair enough. Limitations of the firing range. Understand.

I'll take a stab at it.

Since I don't know how wide the paper is, I'll assume the boxes holding the corners down are shotshell boxes at roughly 4".

1. The pattern is very well regulated left to right. A change in velocity of your shells may change that slightly. I'd say the velocity that you are using is what the gun was regulated for.

2. At 25 yards, your shot has lost about 1/3 of it's initial velocity. At 40 yards it's lost very near half. It takes as long for the shot to travel from 25 to 40 yards as it does from the muzzle to 25 yards. It will fall about 1.5" from what you observe at 25 yards to 40 yards. It will fall another 3 inches or so at 50 yards. This is why the 'sighting system' such as it may be gives all firearms an initial elevation above line of sight. Shotguns are normally expected to shoot to point of aim at 40 yards.

3. Considering the above, I observe about a shell box and a half elevation at 25 yards, so it shoots 6" high or maybe a tad more. At 40, it should be about 4 to 5" high, and just about to cross the sight line on the way down at 50 yards.

It looks like a full choke to me, and shoots just where I like a gun to shoot.

The deceiving thing is that the 'peak of the crest' must be about 25 yards and it's all downhill from there. The shot travels from 40 to 50 yards in the same it took to go the first 20 yards. The drag on small pellets is very high and even higher when they are smashed out of round.

A high shooting gun is your friend.

It is impossible to tell for sure from the pic, but I don't think that the patterns shown are only 6" high. It appears to me that the entire upper fringe of the patterns may be completely off the paper. There is precious little pattern, besides fringe, below the point of aim. I would not be surprised, seeing more patterns shot on a larger plate or paper, if it were not shooting 80/20 high, at least 70/30.

Regardless, understanding that the shot drop will help things at long range does not help the situation at close range, where most birds are killed. The only way to properly shoot those patterns at close range is to "float" the bird above the bead, in space. From watching shooters try to do that for years, and trying to do it years ago on wild quail, I can tell you it is a recipe for poor shooting, and a lot of wounded birds. Since the vast majority of shots are taken at 30 yards or less, the better course is to have a gun that shoots no more that 60/40 high, or even flat (50/50), at those distances. My guns shoot flat to 60/40 high and I do not concern myself with shot drop on long shots. If I am "playing" with some really long stuff, 70-80 yards, like the #8 bird on a "Make A Break", I may hold over a tad. That is much easier to do than having to consistently float a bird on close shots. Dedicated trap guns and pigeon guns are a whole 'nuther animal, and are set up to shoot purposely high. Neither should influence how a game gun is set up.

Then, there is the shooter error of lifting the head off the stock slightly. This may be the most common shooter error with a shotgun ......that, and shooting behind. No one should set up a shotgun to accommodate errors, but if a gun is shooting as high as this one is, and the head lifts slightly, you've got a big "0" on the scorecard, or a missed bird, because your load will go even higher.

JMO, based on my experiences.

SRH

I don't see a big problem with it most game you shoot will be rising.

Must have open chokes, shoots a bit high.

That's what I've always heard you want a shotgun that throws its patterns above point of aim.

It's a matter of scale... depends on how big that paper is.

Don't forget this is a full choke being tested at 25 yards.

It is indeed difficult to hit with a full choke at that distance.

Even with half the holes displayed (one shot) this pattern if centered on a quail would have feathers in the air for half an hour.

A skeet choke would take the elevation error right out of this.