doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Please help to identify this Drilling

First of all, hello everyone, I am a new member here. I know I should first use the search button, but unfortunately, I am not sure it would help in this case, so I will make a new post, hoping to get some knownledgeable help and use the search button in the meantime...

I have inherited this beautiful drilling, it was passed on from my grandgrandfather to my grandfather, then to my father and now it belongs to me. Unfortunately, when it was given to my father, who des not hold a gun license, it was wiped useless by the police. The barrels got welded and the percussion device was removed, so it is now only for display. I would love to make it work again, so I am getting my gun license and I am desperately looking for help with identicifaction, in order to help a gunsmith with the repair and also in order to know as much as possible about the gun.

So, here are some pictures:
[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...amp;oe=5826A15E[/img]





















[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13640954_1255096471181063_1700503030909129123_o.jpg[/img]

[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13641235_1255096527847724_1425594450635732972_o.jpg[/img]

[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13603482_1255096597847717_2750373361497218190_o.jpg[/img]

[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13640799_1255096627847714_3856375832063315313_o.jpg[/img]

If anyone can help identifying not only the manufacturer, but also the maker of the beautiful engraving, i would be very grateful...

Thank you for any help!

First, welcome to the site.

This looks to be a Roux-underlever drilling with the shotgun barrels both 16 gauge and the rifle barrel the old 9.3x72R "forsterpatrone", made in Suhl and proofed in November 1923. Krupp steel barrels all around.

Some of the other members here will have better information on the actual mechanics who made the gun. The mechanics all had individual marks they stamped on it to record their part of the work. It appears to be what we in America call a "guild" drilling. That is to say, one large company did not make the entire gun from start to finish but rather various small shops specializing in one part or another took part in making the gun as more or less a collective effort, usually in response to an order from a retailer for a certain number of guns of certain quality and chamberings.

You will have to show us more of what was done to de-weaponize the gun. It appears they drilled a hole in the rifle barrel's chamber and it appears, but is unclear, that they did something to the standing breech, the vertical face where the rear ends of the cartridges were held when the barrels were closed. Also, could you please advise whether the screws for the action plates on either side are missing, or that you removed them for some reason before photographing. Finally, are the insides of the action - the leaf springs and other parts that drive the hammers - present, or did the police take them, too?

The reason for these questions is that, depending on how thorough the police were when de-weaponizing the gun, it may not be possible to repair it, or it may not be economically reasonable to repair it.

It was a fine gun when it was built. Similar guns, but in working order, sell for between $1000 and $1500 in America, depending on their condition (particularly the condition of the barrels).

Thank you Dave for your swift response! Where does it say it was proofed in November 1923 please?

In order to de-weaponize it (I will remember this word:-)) they have done this:

• welded the barrels on the back side (the chambers)
  
• drilled a hole in the chamber
  
• removed the percussion mechanism completely (leaf springs and everything else that drives the hammers)
  
• removed the pin that raises the sights
  
• welded the standing breach face in order to prevent the firing pin from hitting the cartridge
  

I myself did not remove anything from the gun, neither did my father. So if there is anything missing, the police removed it and probably destroyed it (the de-weaponizing took place in 1978, last time this gun was shooting was in 1976).

Thank you for valuation of the gun (if it was in firing order). I will never sell it, so it serves the purpose of justification of the cost of repairs... :-)

This is the only thing that reminds me of my predecessors, we have also had a beautiful Mercedes Benz W18 from 1934, but it was sold in 1972 due to huge difficulties to obtain spare parts during the god damned communist era... But that is an off topic... :-)

Czechmate,
Dave's information concerning caliber, age, etc. is basically correct, except it is not likely a "guild gun". It was instead likely built for the "trade", which means it was built to be sold to a dealer, who would then apply his own name. Very often a dealer's name wasn't added. It is likely possible to get it shooting again, but I'm not sure of the legal requirements. I am sure, however, that it will cost more than you could sell it for. Since it was your greatgrandfather's I'm sure it wouldn't be "for sale", so that wouldn't be a consideration. You could have the rifle caliber changed at the same time, since it would have to be rebarreled( sleeved).The new barrel would have to be in a caliber appropriate for the strength of the action. I also agree with Dave that it seems lock parts have been removed, and must be replaced( more cost). There will be others, but Henneberger in Muennerstadt or Zimmerman in Wildflecken ( both in Germany) can do this work. You will need to carry it to them for an examination before they can tell you what would be involved. Your Greatgrandfather would be happy. Good luck. It seems we were writing at the same time. Where the breech face was welded might need a bushing (gasdictemutterbolzen-sp?), also extra cost, but can handle gas pressure better.
Mike

Thank you Mike, that is a valuable info regarding possible repairs and who could do it!

The gun was supposed to undergo a major repair in 1967, but the gunsmith, who was t be hired to do the work was preparing some special gun for EXPO 1967 in Montreal and he died soon after that. He was the true master and he added the scope mount to the gun before, as you can see in this picture. If you can tell me more about the scope, I would appreciate that as well... It is probably nothing special, but there are no markings whatsoever...:-)

[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...amp;oe=57F685B0[/img]

[img]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...amp;oe=5832F912[/img]

Appears it was deactivated/demilled & passed thru a Czech proof facility in 1974. It may have been made by Emil Eckoldt of Suhl. Interesting connecting rod in the doll's head well, which might point to a maker.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Hello Raimey,

thank you for your response. Since the terminology is new to me and since english is my second language, could you please tell me in more details what exactly are you talking about? I think I understand what the doll head is, I assume the doll head well is the opposite where the doll head locks in? The connection rod you are talking about is that pin that raises the sights when the gun is switched to the rifle mode?

How does this rod points to the Emil Eckoldt?

Thank you very much!

Czechmate, maybe this can help you a little bit with the terminology:

http://www.hunting-heritage.com/blog/index.php/2016/05/16/shotgun-jargon-buster-shooting-uk/

Cheers,
Gunwolf

Thank you Gunwolf, very helpful! In exchange, I have found this source of info, where there is possibly every word explained often with infographics:

Firearms dictionary

Thanks Czechmate, indeed very good source.

Cheers,
Gunwolf