doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Churchill Regal

Sorry for making my first post on this forum a request for information but it looks like you guys might be the right people to ask.

I have an opportunity to buy a E. J. Churchill Regal boxlock and was wondering if anyone had an opinion on these guns. The gun in question was made in the late 60s and features the scroll-backed action and 25" barrels. The overall condition of the gun is very good with much of the original case hardening remaining and no obvious signs of repair or alteration. The asking price is £2650 (British sterling) and the retailer is offering to fit the gun for free.

The gun will see fairly regular use throughout the winter months so I'm really looking for something that will be functional as well as pretty.

If anyone has an opinion - good or bad - I'd love to hear it.

Thanks for reading

Robin

Churchill made fine guns, but I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable to comment there; it may be possible for a modest fee to have them search their records and confirm the gun's configuration as original or otherwise - they are still in business.
25 inches is unusually short for gun barrels ordinarily; 28-30 seems more normal, but Churchill famously championed the XXV, and when properly made (not cut down from longer) are a joy to handle. You may get more muzzle blast around your ears and a different feel to your swing. Are you okay with that?
RG

Thanks for the info RG
It was the short barrels that caught my attention - the gun feels very fast and snappy - totally different from what I'm used to but very appealing! I suppose I'm looking for some reassurance that the gun is worth the asking price before I jump in there and buy it.

Churchil was famous for his XXV's I am not sure of the exact model you are looking at but have a feeling it is a higher grade boxlock
I have had the good fortune to shoot a Churchill Premier sidelock what a nice gun if you are happy with the price I would say go for it

Regal S/N 8491 sold yesterday at Holt's (lot #1721 - in the catalogue archives section) for a hammer price of 1500£. Accounting for exchange rate, buyer's premium of near 20%, and shipping (maybe), I suggest multiplying the hammer price in £ by 2.5 to get delivered $; say $3750 for this gun.

#8491 I'd call a Brand Value two (BV2) for the Churchill name. The Regal is a more modern gun and doesn't exactly seem to fit to my market model, but let say it is about Original Quality of grade six and a half (OQ6.5). The Current Condition level of this gun was something between "significant use" (CC3) and "heavy use, but no abuse" (CC4). That gives us a price range of $2250 to $2950. Auction estimate was 700-900£ (think $1750-2250). That is passable correlation between auction estimate and the market model. I can't account for the higher hammer price, I haven't seen the gun, and am working only from auction descriptions and photo.

Anyway, there is some discussion.

Thanks for showing your detailed calculation. I had spotted the one at Holt’s but figured that it had probably seen a lot more use than the one I was looking at (“barrels slightly loose on action”) Even with that in mind it would seem that the asking price of £2650 ($5292USD at today’s rate!) is way over the mark.

Mind you – If that one at Holt’s sold for £1500 the total price including buyer’s premium would be £1762.50. On top of that a UK buyer would have to pay VAT at 17.5% bringing the total to £2070.94. Assuming that s/n8491 would need re-jointing the asking price of the one I’m looking at doesn’t seem too OTT – especially when they’re offering to fit it for free.

I suppose these things are only ever worth what someone is prepared to pay for them.

I question the 1500£ hammer price against the auction estimate of 700-900£. The guys making those estimates get it close/right a very high percent of the time. That is double the low estimate. Consider that 1500£ bought a new W&S 700 in this same auction and that W&S 700's in similar to better condition went begging at 500£. But, there is that Churchill name and that is something to be reconed with. A gun you paid too much for (relative to the market) but are happy with is worth a lot more than a bargain you are unhappy with. Good to see you doing your "homework" roughShot.

That's interesting what you say about the estimate and hammer price being out of line. I read recently that a lot of Russian buyers are entering the market and are pushing up the prices for 'known makes' especially for best guns - could be an example of the brand value becoming the primary factor....maybe...?

My fall-back position is to go for a good w&s 700 - while we're on the subject of miss-matched values I've seen some really nice ones at good prices and some really awful ones at what seem like extortionate prices.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I must say - my heart is saying "BUY IT!!!" while my head is saying "whoa there big spender". I was planning on this gun being a long-term investment so maybe I shouldn't be worrying too much about current market value.

I have one of these, so I pay attention to dealer's inventories to check prices. In the past few months I have seen these listed (in excellent/mint condition) in the range of $5000-7000 from the likes of Cabelas. There is currently one listed on the Woodcock Hill site in excess of $7000. All have seemingly sold, and even considering normal dealer discounts, I don't think any have likely been less than $4500.00 or so. I think Don's model is correct for the condition of the Holt's gun, but if you have found a really nice example, the price you quote is perhaps just a bit high, but largely in the range. These are much harder to find than W&S 700's. The Regal is not really a modern gun only. It was previously called the "Utility" model, and the name changed after WW II when "Utility" took on a more downscale connotation. The actual gun was made well back into the '20s or earlier. The only real change was the adoption of the scroll back, rather than flat back, in the 60's I believe. Keith

I have one with 30" bbls and love it. Mine was made in the early 60s. They are very well made guns. The House of Churchill is a great book to read if you want to learn more about them.