doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Old versus new(er) guns?

Lloyd owns a before both wars boxlock that is stunning.

Best,
Ted

Probably the practical difference between a 2016 double gun and a 1916 double gun is five or six birds out of a hundred, advantage to the newer gun. I assume of course you have practiced so as to become proficient with both.

I will make my well worn argument that shooting old guns with big drops is just like learning to use double triggers. Have to practice to learn how.

In a 12 or 20 gauge the ability to shoot Walmart ammo out of the new gun is an advantage. Not as much in a 28 or 16.

Several years ago, while we were out hunting bobs, my shooting student Joe Wood said "I like hunting with a classic gun." At the time he was carrying a six and one half pound Parker DH 12 gauge with beautiful 28" Damascus barrels. It has a 14" LOP to a skeleton steel buttplate. 2-3/4" drop at the heel. He was deadly with it. Still is. Parker one frame twelves are scarce. Joe has the unofficial lightest one known based on a thread on the Parker board.

I have a few American sixteens and twenties that weigh less than six pounds. Scarce, but not rare.

Flues twenties under six pounds are fairly common.

I suppose there could be arguments for all. I shoot with a group of gentlemen and some prefer to shoot fine English Best gun or other vintage guns. One shoots a Purdey hammer gun made 1878 and another shoots a 1909 Purdey. Another friend shoots several guns either hammer or hammerless.
Now they shoot weekly so I have wondered about the toll weekly shooting will take. They do shoot light loads.
I also shoot a English Best at times and have broken the main cocking spring in my Atkin spring opener. Now this is a very difficult spring to make there fore expensive. My other two friends have had issues with their Purdeys but nothing expensive to fix.
I just purchased a Garbi 12 bore and had Briley chokes installed. It will be a clays gun and a dove gun.
My English guns will come out on occasions I suppose.

Mike, I don't get that; given the same cartridge, why would being "old' diminish it's efficiency by 5%?

The finest game shot I know uses a pair of 1909 Dickson round actions; he doesn't appear to be handicapped by them in any way.

To take your other point, he does practice a lot. Every morning, in the season or out of it he goes into the yard and runs through his stance and gun mounting routine for about ten minutes. In the driven shooting season he's probably out three days a week killing big numbers.

Eug

I think there's something to Mike's observation of Joe's prowess and his liking for the classics: we tend to go to the guns we shoot (and like) best.

Hi Eugene:

In our informal clays games over time there have been handicaps developed for pumps and doubles.

In my experience a single trigger has a huge advantage when shooting doubles in ATA trap. Also in American skeet. And also for the second shot on wild birds.

The ability switch out the screw-in chokes gives a modern gun an advantage.

The 1916 American bird gun (English rough shooting) probably left the factory with about three inches of drop at the heel and 1-3/4" at the comb and 14"LOP. Compared to a modern gun with 1-3/8 x 2 x 14-3/4 the American bird gun is at a disadvantage on long shots I believe. I find the vertical alignment of the eye over the rib is more consistent with a high stock, compared to one with 3" DAH.

A hundred year old American goose/duck gun is likely to have stock dimensions of 13-1/2 x 3 x 1-3/4. Likely to have 40 or 50 thousndths of chokes in both barrels. Most likely has double triggers too. Again at a slight disadvantage to a modern high stocked 15"LOP choke-tubed gun when shooting clays.

Most of the guns I own are old American small bore doubles with some nice British and European small bores in the mix. I hunt bobwhite quail, Hungarian partridge, sharptail grouse, and pheasant. 75% of my hunting season is spent on bobwhites. Since I am shooting over pointing dogs the shots tend to be short and the disadvantages of the 100 year old American bird guns minimized.

Many American shooters buy an old double. And the first time they try to hit something all they see are the breech balls. They are in the habit of resting their cheekbone on the comb. Learning to shoot a big drop gun takes some practice. But it is not difficult, just different.

A 1915 28" barreled 6-1/2 pound Purdey 12 bore gives up nothing to its 2010 younger sibling in operation or effectiveness. But over here 2-1/2" shells have to be delivered to the house as our stores do not stock them.

While I prefer double trigger guns I don't argue the advantages of a single trigger gun. But in SxS I have found the double triggers much more reliable than the single trigger.

I would much rather take my 1920 Fox XE 20 gauge quail hunting than any of the modern doubles. It does have 3" drop at the heel but it also has a reliable factory single trigger. Quoting my shooting student and double gun mentor Joe Wood "I like hunting with a classic gun".

Ted's comment of "know thyself" is, to my mind the key factor in this discussion. I hunt waterfowl, almost exclusively. For me, a light weight classic would be inappropriate and a disservice to the gun. So I guess know thyself and be honest with thyself...

Mergus

You know, I'd love to have a classic double to use on waterfowl. To my mind, a Damascus hammergun would be spectacular for just such a use. Two things have kept me from doing it (well...3), steel shot and bad weather. I just can't do that to a well-made (& therefore, valuable!) 100-year old gun.

You never know about reliability. I have a 16 gauge Joseph Lang non-rebounding hammer gun completed March 6, 1866 which was rebarreled in Damascus about 1872 by James Woodward. I have over 5,000 rounds of RST and my low-pressure reloads through this gun without a single hitch with just an ordinary cleaning after each use. It's my favorite quail gun.

Lloyd, why settle for less? How about a brand new LC Smith or Parker that can digest steel. A modern old gun, so to speak.

Here it is,

http://www.ithacagun.com/featherlight.php

Bar none the finest repeater on the planet.