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I've heard church bells myself, Geo. It always struck me as a way that the particular congregation celebrates, not a city ordinance. I would suspect that in this day and age, strategic noise complaints could tone down those bells. I would doubt law would be enacted, but most likely some regulation would be enforced, or some separation litigation could intimidate the church. I don't suspect public funds were used for installation or operation of those bells. Only conversation here Geo, I don't see it as some form of equivocation.

Craig, I haven't really followed this thread too closely, but I do try to read your posts when I see them. Are you saying that the town with the Muslim councilmen has an Ordinance requiring the call to prayer at 6:30 in the morning? That's hard to believe.

There's no local law I'm aware of regarding my church bells, but my point such as it was is simply that religious celebration seems to be acceptable across the board...Geo

On the other hand, not even those pesky Baptists have ever declared jihad against America!

They'll make it mighty warm for an eye-talian Catholic fer sure though, Geo. What they were doing down on Court street Jacktown North Kakalacky at 2 a.m. Saturday night is anyone's guess. Backslider like me I can understand, but c'mon. Shouldn't ya'll be getting ready for Sunday services?

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Everyone has a plan...until they get punched in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore. Mike Tyson

In my part of Texas, the German-American Catholic liquor store owners referred to the drive-up as the "Baptist Window".

I believe the process they used was an exception to the noise ordinance, and it may be 6:00AM and 10:00PM, not 6:30AM, but I guess you have to be there. In Larry's defense, I also suspect a distinct lack of law enforcement follow up of complaints and the threat of defamation suits for dessenting opinions, but I buy my tinfoil in bulk.

I don't know that it's requirement to either call or pray, but, for Larry's request, it's an exception granted to one group and not any other.

Did any of the others ASK for an exception??/

Craig, I wish to heck you'd post LINKS, or at least list your SOURCES (you know, name of the publication, date, etc) because then I could find the specific article to which you're referring. But it's quite clear that ALL the reports don't say anything about workers taking 5 prayer breaks, because I just read 4 articles on the Ariens situation--and NOT A ONE OF THEM referred to 5 prayer breaks. Please go back, reread, and give me a SPECIFIC SOURCE for your information. Islam requires 5 prayers per day (perhaps that's what you read), but they do NOT fall within an 8 hour period. One is at sunrise and one at sunset, which right there is a lot longer than 8 hours. Even in the winter. And one report I read had the director of CAIR in Minnesota, trying to work out a compromise (lots of Somalis in the Twin Cities area) that the workers would get 3 breaks--which, at that point, the company had not accepted.

And Craig, how in heck can you put up a quote from me, then turn around and misquote me in your own post? What I said was: "The 5 prayers would cover the entire day." Nothing about 5 breaks taking all day. One more time: Muslims are required to pray 5 times a day. The 5 prayers cover the religious requirement for the entire day. Each only lasts a few minutes. No, they do not pray all day. Good grief.

Who cares what the demographic of the city council is? Well, I do--when some idiot says it's 100% Muslim when in fact it's only 4 out of six. 2/3 does not = 100%. Who cares? People who believe in accuracy, not BS--that's who.

Other religions don't have a prayer call. So having a prayer call is a special right? As George pointed out, Christian churches have bells. The bells ring and make noise. That likely disturbs some people. Is that a special right? In either case, the way to deal with it is to complain to the local authorities about the noise. What I read from Hamtramck: that's exactly what has happened. And the mosques have been asked to turn down the volume. Seems to be handling noise regulations much the same way they're handled elsewhere. I read about them all the time in the Des Moines Register. Mostly having to do with bars rather than churches. But bars can make noise too, and neighbors can complain.

And here's a little warning to you, Craig: I believe in intelligent discussion. You misquote me one more time--how can you do that when you just posted my fricking quote, then misquote me right below it--and you go on ignore with your buddy Keith. I don't have time for that kind of rubbish.

Jets crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon make noise too. Big noise that had a significant influence on everyone in the U.S. That had everything to do with radical Islam and nothing to do with Christian churches or taverns. But Larry Clown still hasn't seen the negative influence that Muslims have had on this country because he's too invested in making excuses for them.

Note how he keeps carrying on about some source on the internet that said the city council of Hamtramck is 100% Muslim. Who cares? craigd did not say that. Nobody here said that. But this brilliant ex-CIA Intelligence Analyst hasn't noticed that a simple majority on a city council is all that is needed to pass laws and enact ordinances. Larry also seems to think that Ariens is a one shift operation, and that they as a company are not impacted by Muslim workers taking unscheduled breaks that interfered with production 5 times a day, even if all 5 prayer breaks did not occur on the same shift. Here's what an Ariens spokesman had to say about these unscheduled "5 minute breaks" that halted production:

"And that's if these are five minute breaks. If you are going to leave your work station in a plant that's 360,000 square feet, walk to the bathroom to wash your feet, take your time to pray, get dressed again and get ready to go back to work, it's very difficult to do in five minutes,"

Ariens has terminated the Muslim workers who disrupted production by taking unscheduled breaks. The fired workers have filed a lawsuit and a EEOC Civil Rights violation complaint against Ariens. The costs of this litigation will be passed on to the consumer and make Ariens less competitive. This Muslim prayer issue has also affected a Cargill plant in Colorado, and it's safe to assume that this could affect some manufacturer's decisions to move operations to China or Mexico. There were 1490 EEOC complaints filed by Muslims against employers in 2009 alone, and the number is increasing.

Larry is pretending to ignore me, but I will still post my comments about his frequent stupidity because I know he will still look at them. Oh yes, once again, Larry Clown is posting another non-double-gun post in this off-topic thread, even though he said this only one day ago:

Thank you for the warning Larry. In a nice way, I've warned you many times about about the repetitive tendency of your position, but you do not seem to respect my point of view.

In your second paragraph up above here, you use your brand of logic. Please note there are no references, but it's a common tactic that you use. If you're concerned about fitting five muslim prayer breaks into a Wisconsin day during winter, please note that daylight hours fall to under nine hours at that time of the year. And, it may be that many of the work shifts in question are nine hour shifts. If you do the math, let's say five breaks, between sunrise and sunset, how does the work day progress. Doesn't eight hours of work shift, fit into nine hours of daylight mean, maybe four prayer breaks? I can understand that, if you can.

Please note the company tried three breaks over their policy of two ten minute scheduled breaks, but logically the policy compromise was abused? I don't know, you tell me. Cair is now suing the company to require three breaks, logically, isn't that a compromise indicating that they are acknowledging that there were more than three breaks? I don't know, but logic would tell me that there was some abuse above and beyond three breaks during a shift. What do you think?

I found an article that pretty much repeats the above, but they're unable to speculate about the logical conclusions that we're discussing. It's in 'The Brillion News' on January 21, 2016, by Byrne, entitled 'COMPLETE STORY: Muslims leave Ariens over work-time prayers'. There is a statement that breaks, plural, were being taken in addition to the two scheduled breaks. Can anything be deduced from that? If you really do have the intention of checking my source, and thanks if you do, I'd like you to note that right about in the middle is the comment, "Most of the Muslim employees work second shift".

Craig, it'd be a good idea if you could avoid contradiction within your posts. Look at your very last sentence. If the employees work 2nd shift, then much of their work is going to fall during non-daylight hours, right? Unless 2nd shift is a good bit different than the 3-11 schedule my dad worked for John Deere, where he spent a lot of time on 2nd shift. So, one of the prayers comes at sunrise and one right around noon. That eliminates two from second shift conflicts. And #5 comes right before you go to bed . . . which would be when they're home. So I don't quite see the problem from what you posted. Two breaks should take care of the afternoon and the sunset prayer. May have to do with timing? Not sure.

Anyhow, here is the very latest information I could find on Ariens. (Please note: I'm giving you a link.) From May 25:

www.fox6now.com/2016/05/25/ariens-co-sued-over-break-policy-for-muslim-workers/

From that article, it's clear that the situation is not yet resolved. They tried 3 breaks and that did not work. Not because the workers complained, but because the company didn't like it. Impact on production. (Seems understandable.) Currently back to the two break schedule.