doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hemingway's Guns- an uninvited post-mortem

For any of your literati on this website that might give the proverbial "Big rat's ass"- a carefully study of the book so well written by Messers: Calabi (did I spell that correctly, Steve?) Helsley & Sanger in 2010- Here are the technical questions I am offering for your consideration and possible review.

(1) Page 14-- "The civilian version held up to 6 rounds in the magazine plus one in the chamber. I believe the correct number is 5 in the magazine (sans plug of course)plus one in the chamber. I own 11 Model 12's, and I have checked them, and feel that 5 in the magazine tube is correct. What do you think?

(2) Page 30-- young American expatriates living the artistic life- F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Dos Passos, John Steinbeck, Cole Porter-- et al. I do not recall, in my study of the late great novelist from Salinas CA- that John Steinbeck was part of that group, under Gertrude Stein's aegis in Paris circa the "Roaring Twenties". Almost all of his great works were centered around his native State, except for his last- "Travels With Charlie".

(3)Page 34-- "but at the turn of the 19th Century gun designers----- " I believe that should read "20th Century"! In the late 1800's, we had the Browning lever repeaters and shotguns, also the 1893 and later 1897 Winchester pump guns, but nothing in the realm of 16,000 rounds per minute.

(4)Page 60-- "in the fall of 1948 he was hunting ducks in the lagoons of Venice with a new shotgun. Whether or not it is proper form to capitalize the names of the four seasons (with proper respect to the great composer Vivaldi here)should this not be Fall? And I checked on Wikipedia, and Venice has only one lagoon, and a real big one at that.

(5)Page 74. Here I'll rely on my military experience as an armorer- but gunsmith I am NOT- "lifting the handle on the side of the action re-cocks the hammer- Two things I read here: (a) Not the hammer, but the striker- and (b) a minor observation, as this deals with the 1903 Springfield, which was based on the great Mauser Gewehr 98- both cock on opening, whereas the Limey designed Enfield bolt-actions cock on closing. No biggie.

(6) Page 137 The copy from the Griffin & Howe ledger "is not the Gerald R. Ford who became the 28th president of the United States. Jerry Ford was the 38th president, not the 28th. I live near Grand Rapids, his hometown, and a visit to his museum in the plaza downtown near the Grand river is worthwhile. Great man indeed..

Between the October 1, 1946, and the February 2, 1950, Winchester catalogues, the text for the Model 12 magazine was changed with the addition of the portion outlined in yellow --



I watched this Air Force Colonel shoot seven targets in seven shots with his Model 12, a la Herb Parsons, enough times to know they hold seven. On this day I saw him shoot six Ptarmigan in six shots on the covey rise but he declined to take the seventh shot as they were getting too far away.

Thanks- I have beaucoup boxes of 12 and 20 gauge paper (WRA) hulls-I use them in my 2 Model 12 3" chambered shotguns, as I read I think from Brister, that the paper hulls and crimps patterned more openly and evenly in tightly chokes shotguns with longer chambers and forcing cones- I will remove the wooden factory plug from one of them soon, and see if it will hold 6 shells, and more importantly, feed them without flaw- I saw Herb Shoot at the Queen City Gun Club in the 1950's- what he could do with his Model 12- like Vladimar Horowitz on a Steinway Grand in Carnegie Hall- Wow--

Herb, like Jimmie Robinson, was a bit of a raccoon-tuner, and loved side bets- He won $50 from a gun club member and friend of my Dad's back then- Took off his Stetson, and put a Federal Paper Champion paper Trap load in the chamber of his M12-and bet he could shoot it into his hat without any damage. The "Mark" took the bait- Herb took off the barrel and magazine group with the paper hull protruding, placed it inside the Stetson, snicked off the safety, hit the trigger- and "poof"- 1 & 1/8" of 7&1/2 chilled lead shot rolled around harmlessly inside his Stetson. He took the money and smiled- then picked apart the deceased paper hull with his pocket knife- Would NOT try that stunt today with the plastic hulls extant.. RWTF

Pre 1898 Mausers from the 1889 Belgian on also cocked on closing, don't recall about the older tube magazin 11mm ones.You are of course correct in the the striker is cocked, not the hammer. Other than the cocking on opening the 1903 Springfield actually has more features of the 1893 Spanish Mauser than of the 1898. The 1893 was of course th Mauser which gave us such a hard time on San Juan Hill & which forced the authorities to take another look at the outdated Krag.

When I was a kid in the 1960's, we had an older couple for neighbors. The woman used to babysit me on occasion. The walls of her home were lined with framed photos of her and her husband with other people. She and her husband ran Jimmy Robinson's hunt camp at Delta Marsh for decades and the photos were of people who had stayed there. Clark Gable, Bogart, Robert Stack and many many others. I wish I had been old enough to really understand what I was looking at and who I was with. The stories would have been fascinating. Instead it was just Telph and Edna Millar who lived down the street. Kids know nothing! LOL

Fox, So he is an imperfect writer, with an editor who was too. Perhaps even a poor typesetter/printer as well.

Overall it is a decent piece and interesting anyway. I doubt I will ever produce something perfect.

I beg to differ. Hemingway wrote, up to about 1954- without flaw. He would spend hours writing longhand while standing up, on yellow legal pads, then return later and edit and crop and re-write until he had it 100% right-Did he make errors- Hell yes, but he caught most of them, or else Charlie Scribner did--When a critic review his "Green Hills of Africa" he had negative comments about the rough language- Hemingway replied: "That's how men talk on a hunting trip or safari"_ and he was right.

Any book devoted to any aspect of his life: his guns, his wives and women, should be letter perfect. Of all the books about EMH I have read and re-read, only one fits that category- so far. Bernice Kert-1983 W.W. Norton & Co. Book is well titled: "The Hemingway Women- Those Who Loved Him- The Wives and Others"-- By comparison, EMH's last wife, the late Mary Welsh Hemingway's book "How It Was" is laden with errors, but the photos make it worth a cursory read.

I am a cheap SOB by nature, hate to pay top dollar for flawed goods- shotguns that miss-fire, books with typos that someone should have caught--RWTF

I concur on your Hemmingway view as to his work. That is why he is a giant and those who write of him are mortals.

I find the book interesting anyway

Thanks, but Colonel-with all due respect to your rank- It is Hemingway were are admiring, NOT Hemmingway. He had a solid work ethic, at least through his "The Old Man and The Sea" and the Nobel Prize that followed- after that, booze, 4 wives, one son that went gay, plane crashes in Africa, all took their toll-and his periods of the"Old Black Ass" as he referred to his depression episodes-well we all know what a loss his death was, at least to the older order when men ruled the free world, and women were more in the Kipling mode-- "A thousand women like Maggie are willing to bear the yoke, but a woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke. What other writer of his era had the flair for titles- both for his novels and his short stories? None, IMO anyway=

A few of his best, for example, if you will allow me: (1) "White powder on top of a large mountain in Kenya" vs- "The Snows of Kilimanjaro"-- "Society [censored] offs her chickenshit spouse on Safari" vs- "The Short Happy Life of Francis MaComber"- by the way- my vote for his two all-time best short stories-ever- Written at the peak of his budding career, with the comfortable life during the Great Depression, assured by the financial support of second wife, Pauline Pfeiffer- whose rich uncle Gus (Richard Hudnut cosmetics and a St. Louis chemical Co.) liked Ernest and financed their: African Safari, Home in Key West, the Wheeler fishing boat named Pilar and other expensive luxuries, when most Americans were living from hand-to-mouth.

My favorite of his novels? I like them all, but I love "Islands In The Stream" as it details richly, through his alter ego, the painter Thomas Hudson, his relationship with his three sons-

Years ago, when I was heavily into fly fishing, I attended a FFF Convention in West Yellowstone- 1988 maybe- my memory moorings may have slipped, but I recall meeting oldest son Jack Hemingway--spoke with him a bit, mainly about his exploits in WW11 in the OSS (Jedberghs?)- He later thanked me for not asking about his father's demise-he said too many "hangers on" wanted to hear all the gory details of that tragic event. Lots of good photos and details of Jack (now gone) in the book "The Idaho Hemingway"-- I highly recommend it to you. RWTF

Francis, I feel the same as you about Islands in the Stream. As flawless as his writings may have been, the same can�t be said of the man who had enough clay in his feet to build a brick house. He left the terrible legacy of suicide to his friends and family when he killed himself. From accounts I�ve read, he paid little attention to his son Jack while he was younger, but reserved attention for him only after Jack was a war hero. In an article after Jack�s death, he was quoted as saying he spent the first half of his life being known as the son of a great writer, and the second half as being the father of two beautiful and famous women.
John McCain did a tribute last month in the NY Times to a man who fought in the Spanish Civil War on the side of the Republicans with the Lincoln Brigade. Berg was the last living member of the Americans who fought in Spain. In it he said his favorite novel was For Whom the Bell Tolls and Robert Jordan his favorite literary hero. As an old warrior yourself, I think you will appreciate his sentiments:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/opinion/john-mccain-salute-to-a-communist.html

CSPAN a few years ago did a live broadcast from Hemingway's house of cats in Key West. It was on all day as they interviewed friends, family and literary scholars about Hemingway. Mariel did a recorded interview about her grandfather and it was wonderful to see and hear.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?169686-1/interview-hemingway

The twin Wheeler of Pilar is on permanent display inside the Bass Pro Shop in Islamorada.
Gil