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Joined: Jan 2016
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JFB Offline OP
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my first gun I asked for information about was a Browning in this post
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=432488#Post432488

The next one is a

Lyon & Lyon, London & Calcutta, 470 3 Cordite, side lock hammer double rifle.

I picked it up at gun show in Roanoke VA. It was in pretty rough shape. The dealer (I forgot name) would not provide any history as per the estate he was selling it for. I had it refurbished by Mr. Eggleson (sic), Columbia SC around 1991. I am hoping someone here might have some information about this Gunmaker. After Mr. Eggleson made the missing firing pins, one of the hammers and whatever else it needed, he sent it off to be re case colored. I cannot recall who did it, but I do recall Mr. Eggleson saying I was lucky to have them do it. The rifle was then cased by Huey. I did shot this gun a lot when I got it back. I was intrigue by varying loading to establish the barrel regulation. If I am not dreaming this, I think I got some 300 grain Wildey pistol bullets to shot on target.

So any information on this rifle and estimated value would be greatly appreciated.












Last edited by JFB; 01/14/16 08:09 PM.
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continuing photos









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A post on nitroexpress.com might bring you additional information. A very good source for double rifle information.

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Nice gun.

If it was mine I'd let someone like Steve Barnett sell it on consignment.....they can reach a broader audience and can evaluated the guns value better than most.

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I was hoping this site could provide some info on the rifle (and Gun Maker that performed the restoration for me).

As for signing up on another site...That is counterproductive to the condition I NEED to get myself in. As implied, I have been out of shooting for many years now and getting enthused again is not what I want. I am even avoiding reading too much here

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Looks, JFB, as if Jere Eggleston did a fine job on your double rifle. Below is an article on him by Layne Simpson in "Rifle Magazine" from May-June 1987. A separate article written in 2014 described him in passing as "the late" Jere Eggleston.

The double rifle was retailed by the Indian firm Lyon and Lyon, more information on which is below, copied from PeteM who posted it in 2010. The rifle itself is a Birmingham-proofed double with proof marks that came into use in 1904.

Believe it's a sound gun and it is in the desirable .470 Nitroexpress dangerous game caliber. But, because of its relative anonymity and that it is a hammer gun, will have less value than the brand-conscious, hammerless double gun buyers will want. Others more knowledgeable will surely chime in.

Regards, Tim Carney
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Here's what's what on Lyon and Lyon:

Lyon & Lyon
Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road, Calcutta India

Gunmaker & cycle agent, importers of gymkhana and sporting requisites. 1896-1940

James Lyon was born in 1859 in Lundie, Angus, Scotland. He was the son of George Lyon, a meal miller (b.1829 in Caputh, Perthshire), who in turn was the son of James Lyon, also a miller, and Mary Bisset Lyon. George was recorded in the 1861 census, but his wife (Rachel nee Dow) was not recorded; she appears to have died by that time although George was not described as a widower. George and Rachel's daughters were Georgina (b.1853 in Caputh, Perthshire) and Mary (b.1857 in Perth), and James was their only son.
George died on 13 December 1862, and the orphaned children went to live with great aunt, Louisa Bisset, who lived in Spitalfield, near Caputh. In the 1871 census James and Mary were recorded living in Caputh with Louisa Bisset, but Georgina was not recorded.

James reportedly moved to Inverness where he was a lodger living with George Batchen and his wife, Elizabeth McKenzie Batchen, and their family at 6 Innes Street (see below). He was either apprenticed to a gunmaker or simply worked for a gunmaker and if the latter, probably as a shopman. The gunmaker was probably D Gray & Co at 27 Union Street.

In about 1882 James appears to have moved to London where he worked for James Purdey. In 1885 he was recruited by F W Prike who had just taken over the management of R B Rodda & Co in Calcutta, India.

In 1890 one of George Batchen's daughters, Janet McKenzie Batchen, known as Netta (b.1863 in Knockbain, Ross-shire), went out to Calcutta where she married James on 29 September 1891. In 1895 James left R B Rodda & Co and in 1896 established his own business at Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road. The firm was named Lyon & Lyon, possibly because there was another firm named Lyon & Co in India at the time. There is no record of there being any other person named Lyon being involved in the business. However, James described himself as the managing partner. His assistant was listed as G Phillips, and the firm's London agents were Colley & Co of 4 Lombard Court. James described the business as "Gun, Rifle and Revolver Manufacturers, and Importers of Gymkhana & Sporting Requisites".

In 1897 the firm were appointed agents for Joseph Lang & Sons of 10 Pall Mall, they were also agents for the Calcutta Cycle Co.

In 1899 the firm described themselves as gun and rifle manufacturers and opened a rifle range at Ballygunge. They stated that their agents were J Lyon & Co of 4 Lombard Court, these were the offices of Colley & Co.

In 1905 the partners were listed as James Lyon and G Phillips Shelton, J Broughton was listed as an assistant.

The firm was not listed again until 1920 when the proprietor was J Broughton and his assistants were W Mayer and Miss Mayer, this could imply that James had semi-retired but still a major share of the business. The firm was listed again in 1924.

In 1927 when his son, Louis, was married, James described himself as a retired Indian merchant, but in 1929 James Lyon and G Phillips Shelton were recorded as governing directors of the business, J Broughton and D J Todd were described as directors, but in later years were described as assistants (D J Todd had worked for R B Rodda & Co from 1911 to 1926). H J Connors, J Henderson and Miss S McDonald were described as assistants.

In 1931 James recorded as a retired gun manufacturer living at 31 Culduthel Road, Inverness. He had died by 1935 which was when Netta died.

In 1934 the firm was sold to F B Prike of R B Rodda & Co. At that time the employees of the firm were Miss B Ord, D J Todd, H J Connors and D F D Hazells. The business was relocated to Rodda's premises at 3 Wellesley Place.

After stocks of unsold guns were sold no further guns bearing the Lyon & Lyon name were made. In 1937 D J Todd left the firm to go to work for Manton & Co, he remained there until 1943. In 1939 S K Bannerjee was recruited as an assistant, but the firm appears to have ceased trading in 1940 the remaining staff becoming Rodda employees.

Most of the firm's guns were made in Birmingham by trade manufacturers, but some guns were imported from America and Europe.

At some time the firm were appointed gun makers to His Excellency the Viceroy and Governor-General, and they were agents for or representatives of (as were most of India's gunmakers) Westley Richards & Co Ltd, Cogswell & Harrison, W W Greener, Webley & Scott, Holland & Holland, W J Jeffery & Co, Wilkinson Sword Co and Winchester.

The firm invented their "Lethal Ball" shotgun bullet which was made for them by Kynoch. This bullet was introduced to compete with Rodda's "Rotax" bullet, Manton & Co's "Contractile" bullet, and Holland & Holland's "Paradox". These bullets were for use against dangerous soft-skinned game. The Lethal Ball could be used in cylinder or choked barrels or barrels with Paradox type rifling. It was spherical and made of two (later four) soft iron discs interlocking at right angles. These were placed in a mould into which the lead was poured. On impact, the lead pieces became detached from the iron frame. The bullets were not accurate over anything but very short range mainly because they were undersized (about 16 bore) in order to cope with choke and rifling (similar ammunition was issued to the Home Guard in the Second World War).
----------------------

and your gunsmith, Mr. Eggleston:




Last edited by Tim Carney; 01/13/16 06:13 PM.
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Thank you very much Sir!

the Article reminded me of my couple visits with Jeri during the process. I saved the files with plan to print and put in the case.

Jeri got me to subscribe to some new fancy gun magazine at the time smile

Joe

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You are welcome, Joe.

Must say I admire the look of that .470 hammer double. Please add some information on it:
--are the strikers bushed? That is, are the firing pins inserted into a bushing that can be screwed out, or do they just protrude through the breech face?
--length of barrels
--weight of the rifle
--length of pull from the front trigger to the end of the butt
--can you open the rifle if the right hammer is cocked?
--can you use your trigger hand thumb to sweep back and cock both hammers at the same time, or do you have to cock them one at a time?

I went on a number of sites, including gunsamerica and gunbroker and found .470 hammer guns, all by named makers at prices from $4,950 for an E.M.Reilly, a known but not top-rated maker, to $15-20,000 by Rigby who is among the best. Hopefully Rocketman can give a better appreciation of value here.

Regards,
Tim

Last edited by Tim Carney; 01/14/16 06:09 PM.
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--are the strikers bushed? No
--length of barrels 26"
--weight of the rifle 10 1/2 lbs, stock 4 & barrels 6 1/2
--length of pull from the front trigger to the end of the butt 14 1/2" (center of the butt)
--can you open the rifle if the right hammer is cocked? No
--can you use your trigger hand thumb to sweep back and cock both hammers at the same time, or do you have to cock them one at a time? I can't get both, only one at a time

$5K is very disappointing to hear. I am sure I had more than that in 1990 dollars!

I am also thinking I might need to value the Huey Case seperately.

Plus I would need to inventory the factory ammo I have and the reloading components

Last edited by JFB; 01/14/16 04:11 PM.
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I was thinking more along the lines of 7 to 8 grande and up.

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