doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com true purpose of the beavertail forearm>

My personal observation is that a hand around a BTFE is less obstructive that a hand around a set of barrels. Try it. For competitive clay shooting, give me a BT every time. If shooting doubles, the BT offers much needed protection from hot barrels.

As to the extended arm seen on the long ago shooters, it may partly be style, and it might be function. Most of the old gun stocks had more drop and less pitch, both conditions contributing to muzzle rise. Do a force diagram and it becomes pretty clear. I don't think Zutz ever took high school physics.

Great post! In my experience with an assortment of antique guns, each of which differs in terms of two relevant points here, namely barrel length and drop-at-heel, the greater the drop-at-heel (i.e. more than 2-1/2 inches) and given a length of barrel from 28 to 30-inches, straightening the arm and thereby extending the forward hand beyond the forearm definitely improves my shooting. Conversely, a shorter-barreled gun, coupled with a barrel length of 25-27 inches and less drop-at-heel, needs less arm-straightening or hand extension forward of the forearm, if at all.

If we look at the photographs provided here by another correspondent that depict sportsmen of a much earlier era, you remark that their heads are held erect when assuming their respective shooting positions, and off the butt-stock comb, which position seems to be their common shooting style and not simply a posture affected for recording a photograph. I sometimes shoot with my head similarly erect too, depending on the gun and occasion, and it works very well, if I extend the forward hand beyond the forearm and keep my arm straight, as shown in the aforementioned photographs. King Edward VII, for another example, the originator of English shooting parties, shooting estates and driven game shooting during the Victorian era when but Prince Edward, evinces an extended straight arm in his period photographs.

I would posit that the reason for the extended, straight arm is twofold: (1) the gun has a substantial drop-at-heel and (2) the sportsman's shooting style incorporates an erect head, off the comb of the butt-stock method. When you extend your arm straight and curl your hand around the barrels, you are also fully pointing at the target with your hand and extended index finger, even if unawares, as opposed to a bent arm forward hand position where you would be inaccurately jutting a foreshortened arm at the target.

The elder Charles Askins, writing in his seminal book, "American Shotgun," circa 1921, tells of his successes in the field with the 'head off the butt-stock comb style' of shooting; so indeed, there is an authority who wrote this method or style is not only acceptable to a knowledgeable professional like himself, but found no reason why it could not be successfully used afield, due to his direct experience. He positively scoffs at the idea that this method is not effective or is errant.

On the advice of the late Mr. Askins, I have taken my Prussian Charles Daly / H. A. Lindner-finished, 200 Grade non-ejector, "Diamond Quality" gun (serial no. 3633, barrels by "LE"), which is shown immediately below, having 4-1/4 inches of drop-at-heel and 28-inch barrels affixed, to the local club several times and had good success, but only as long as I fully extended my forward arm and hand along the barrels. Personally, I do not shoulder the gun before calling the target, but instead hold it in a position as I would in the field, which also helps me break targets; I like to be surprised, I suppose, in imitation of field conditions.



Consider too that target shooters usually place the tip of their extended index finger between the barrels of a side-by-side gun touching the under-rib, or if using an over-under configured gun, the pointed index fingertip touches the underside of the barrel. For example, first point at a spot on the wall with your arm bent at the elbow, which will necessitate that you must also bend both your wrist and index finger to achieve; and secondarily, alternatively point the index finger at the same spot on the wall with your straightened arm fully extended and the finger also pointed straight, in order to determine which method more accurately points to the selected spot. The straight arm method will, of course, prevail.

As to the beavertail forearm, I think it is extremely useful, though unattractive, and would employ it with all my guns if not for the fact they are all antiques and it would not be advisable to change them or their aesthetic charm. I have used pigeon guns with beavertail forearms and they are a pleasure to employ, as opposed to leather-covered spring steel hand-guards that have a tendency to slide forward while in use or fall completely off the barrels. I have tried the trick of using a 20-bore guard with a 16-bore and a 16-bore guard with a 12-bore; it does not work all that well, the guard still slips ineluctably forward, usually at the most awkward of moments, and can possibly be lost if dropped unnoticed afield. Also, hand-guards are not inexpensive, at $45 to $75 apiece or more.

Unlike what some may claim, the beavertail forearm does not negatively affect the plane in its placement of the forward hand; in fact, it places the hand alongside either side of the barrels in a better position for the hand to point the barrels as your eyes direct it. Therefore, I think we should raise a monument to whomever invented the beavertail forearm and put him down for a holiday.


Regards,

Edwardian

Agreed. My 1905 era (Thank you, Mr. Laxcoach) 12 bore grade 3E LC Smith left the factory with 28" barrels open choked, with the std. splinter forearm- was sent back in 1928 and fitted with a set of 32" barrels choked F&F, with a beavertail forearm. As the original splinter forearm fits perfectly on the later 32" Nitro steel Ventilated barrel set, when I use it for live birds, as I do not pre-mount like the trapshooters do, but use the Ken Davies H&H school technique, I find I have greater handling dynamics in that mode. Also, the LC Smith forearm in beavertailed configuration is way too bulky for my hand grasp--I am thinking about finding another LC Smith beavertail forearm, just the wood, and having Brad B. reconfigure it much in the style of the M21 kidney shaped beavertail of the late 1930's era- I grasp the barrels much as you describe, and with good success afield. As to barrel heat, I use a golf glove on my left (barrel grasping) forward hand when shootingboth at clays (on occasion) and on real feathered targets (my strong preference)-- Your comments about the late Charles Askins were well placed, Sir. I also have his book from that era-indeed, a fine read even today. RWTF

It is my (previously expressed ) opinion that the 'erect head position', at least for target shooters, is mostly mythology, partially related to the staged studio and field images of Live Bird shooters in the 'ready position' such as Rolla Heikes here



or J.A.R. Elliott and his Winchester 1893



There are almost no 'live action' images until after about 1910, but this is Mrs. W.C. Shattuck at the 1900 GAH at Live Birds, and her mount is not unlike lady trap shooters today



or Travers Island 1911. I haven't ID'd the lefty on Station 2;
John R. Taylor station 3, Jack Fanning 4, and Charles Newcomb 5.




Lots of images and infro here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c7UkkNyMTZ9NAztILpzjSLKvgIneAw5i7eqkZ3d3Eno/preview

Sporting Life Nov. 12, 1898
Rich. Oliver, a well-known English shot, speaking of grouse shooting, says he does not recommend a too rigid attitude. A military position, he declared quite wrong. He said if it could only be impressed upon young sportsmen that they should lean well forward upon their guns, with their heads also thrown forward, they would shoot much better. It is better to keep the left arm down toward the trigger as much as possible for this kind of shooting, as the leverage of the arm is so much better in that attitude.

Hard to assess the head position as the bird appears to be high, but the arm is well extended



Robert Churchill, and the barrel may be longer than the XXV

I was mulling all this over early this morning and I have to express my surprise that the beavertail was so late in coming. Black powder gets barrels hot fast. Really hot, very fast. Obviously the little slip-on thingys were offered as a solution, but a BTFE seems like it would have been one of those "Duh!" moments.

how true. some young buck working as a shop boy probably thought it out, told the master, and the old master looked at him and said....you youngins' think you know it all! this is the way its been done for generations. im not changing. get out and go empty the trash! and then the master made one, showed it to company, and became famous.
lol.

To make beautiful guns ugly.

The picture of the 25 straight shooters from the 1901 Grand American Handicap I posted earlier is from The American Field, April 13, 1901, Vol. LV, No. 15.

Thank you. It's up here, with an attribution
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19974446

Beautiful pic. And prolly not unlike almost ANY trapshooter then or now for that matter.

cool pix, Drew

have another day
Dr.WtS