doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thomas Kilby-Donn-Daly damascus side by side

Maybe I should have added the Jakob, http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11653 . The Chr. Friedrich Triebel sidelock currently as a thread, not the Jakob, has Pointers that look like they are from South Alabama or South Georgia and there are English Setters on the opposing side. And the fowl may resemble ducks.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Pointers and setters pointing flying ducks over a body of water, sometimes on a sand beach on the ocean, is normally a Japanese thing.

Frederick J. Abbey, younger brother of George Thackeray Abbey(died August 10th 1872)??, & J.H. Foster formed Abbey & Foster of Chicago and were a source for Charles Daly in the early days.

Now Frederick J. Abbey seems to have sourced W.C. Scott & Son and most of those doubles utilized the thumb-hole lever. It is possible that Abbey imported components thru his older brother George Thackeray Abbey, who, if I have my facts correct, arrived in the U.S. of A. in the mid 1840s and could have easily been associated with the Kilby klan. "Gunmakers of Illinois" by Curtis L. Johnson may provide some insight on Abbey & Foster. But F.J. Abbey expired on September 22nd, 1878 and it is very curious that about this same time Daly turned to Lindner. And it is about this time that the Abbey lockup appears on Lindner's examples, as found under U.S. of A. patent #114081: http://www.google.com/patents?id=blBjAAA...p;q&f=false

George Thackeray Abbey is noted as working up until 1874 or later but that isn’t the case. Court documents show that a George T. Abbey of the Chicago area died on August 10th, 1872 and left monies for his 3 sisters Harriet Abbey, Mary Ann Welch and Jeannette Carpenter. Excluding donations to hospitals and the like George T. Abbey left about everything to his son William Abbey, with the exception of his 12 bore double which was supposed to got to an un-named friend. Then William Abbey expired August 11th, 1879, with a possibility of everything reverting back to his mother Julia M. Abbey, wife of George T. Abbey, who expired on January 23rd, 1886. So one of the sisters, along with other brother heirs, felt compelled to try their hand at an acquisition and I guess it to have been Jeannette Carpenter. Odd that George T. Abbey didn’t list any brothers(but court documents noted he had brothers) in his will and I wonder if they all made the boat ride over or some were born here. Some sources suggest that George T. Abbey was the son of Frederick J. Abbey, but for now I think they were either brothers or close relatives. Apparently there are business cards as well as game tally cards of George T. Abbey in existence and he is also noted as a maker of target arms and scopes. If indeed he did make scopes I’d guess them to have been very early versions. George T. Abbey was an importer and very possibly there was an established link between Abbey & Kilby.

I’ve been chasing this rabbit, or on this tangent, as it is possible that James Donn, etal., were either sourcing the boys Abbey or were using their lines of sourcing for components or longarms in the white. But James Don & Associates from 1859 - 1867 had sales of all his wares, I think, he netted $600 per year and then post 1867 when his brother joined him net was $50k U.S. of A. Something is odd surrounding gunmaking, total number of existing examples and cost, but I assume hardware was a large part and was the main contributor to the purported $50k per year.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey
Are you going to the Southern? If so come by my house-I'm
right on the way. Will explain with examples my interpetations of the Illinois
Gunmakers-Have Donn -Kilby and Thomas Kilby guns
reguards
Bill

Dr. McPhail:
That was my intent to have you do a show and tell as well as see a dog and pony show. But, unfortunately I'm left to mind the farm including a new litter of shorthairs. I'm still going to stop by and see the examples before Forrest(?) sells them all!!!

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey
You are welcome anytime- looking fotword to your visit
Reguards
Bill

I own a circa 1898 Thomas Kilby with Wm Donn engraved between the barrels. I am very interested in what you know about Kilby and the Donn brothers. It is my understanding that Kilby made damascus barrels and blank recievers. He in turn sent the gun to Germany or some other country for the engraving of the blank and the wood. My gun is beautiful and well preserved. I would love to send you are any interested parties photos of this shotgun.

John Grimm
jbgrimm@comcast.net

I know I am e late to the discussion but I am doing a series of articles on English guns beginning the history of the rising bite or the vertical bolt as it is called in the trade from Abbey, Rigby and Bissell, Beesley, Boss, up to the present day. I am beginning with GT Abbey his patents and his move to Birmingham.
Any and all hi- rez (300 dpi jpg, RAW, tiff, pdf) pictures, ads, accounts of Kilby, Abbey, early Lindner or Daly, Donn etc guns would be appreciated. I will give you credit as you wish.
(With all due respect, it is doubtful that G.T Abbey whilst living in Birmingham working with Kilby sent the guns to Germany to have them finished for the Chicago retailers. There were plenty of out workers in Birmingham who could provide any kind of engraving or stock carving one could imagine. One need only look at some of the W&C Scott catalogues of the period to see examples of such intricate engraving and carving. Kilby was not just a barrel maker but supplied an entire gun, for example, using the GT Abbey patent and the name on the rib. However, it might be that guns with elaborate stock carving might have been finished by the US-based gunmaker.)
Niemann

Niemann:

I'll give you a shot across your bow in that if you can prove in postulate form that the Donn-eske offerings peddled by the Chicago contingent were made by Birmingham mechanics, please do so. Otherwise we'll let the marks speak for themselves. Kilby didn't send them but Daly did. Daly couldn't obtain the wares he wanted from the Birmingham mechanics of the little British Isles so he sourced gestecks & sent them to the most talented mechanics in Suhl

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dear Raimey,

Thank you for your info about Daly. Do you think there was a sourcing transition period from E. Thomas "building" the 1871 patent Abbey and Foster guns to Donn and Daly?

My interest at this point is narrowed to the original G. T. Abbey Patents in the US and the UK, and the guns that were made by those such as Kilby in Birmingham for Abbey's retail store in Chicago.

It is curious that G.T. Abbey moved to Birmingham, England in 1869 and then returned to the USA to die in 1872. Was it possible he died whilst abroad?

Best regards,
Niemann