doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Is there such a thing? 2 1/2 non toxic load?

Been thinking it's time to get the ole Remington out in the blind, but I can't seem to find any 12ga 2 1/2 inch non toxic loads. I don't mind paying premium prices to get the old Remmy out for a day or two. Are there any places that sell or make them?

RST loads NiceSHot at about $3.00/round

I don't know of any other OTC 2.5's in non-lead.

There you go.

http://www.rstshells.com/store/c/18-12-Gauge.aspx

Great people to do business with also.

I saw that but they have been out of stock for some time.

Check Kent Gamebore. Don't know what the status is on availability, but they load their Tungsten Matrix in 2 1/2" hulls. I have some, but I got them quite some time ago.

Vintage waterfowling has really become the realm of the handloader.
It is probably best to partner up with someone and split the cost of a few boxes.
The choices just keep getting fewer and fewer. And even if the shot is vintage friendly non-lead, then the cartridge pressures are still SAAMI max. Or the velocities are so high the recoil beats an old stock to pieces.

I have read where the cost of Bismuth has come down enough to warrant the making of shot again. But I'm not holding my breath.

Call rst and see what they have in stock and when they expect to have what you need. Web sites are often out of date. I use them like a catalog but go shopping on the phone instead of just waiting for inventory to appear on the site.

Reloading is the way I went to get non-tox shells that were safe and double friendly. Bismuth shot was my final metal used in place of lead shot. It performs nearly as well as lead did and does not put too much extra pressure or risk of choke damage in my old, too tightly choked doubles.

It took a long time to build up my shot inventory. One very large estate find and a dozen purchases from eBay gave me a wide variety of shot sizes. Load information gathered off the internet and a couple specialized reloading guides gave me enough different safe loads for almost any need. I have loaded about two thirds of it but sadly not gotten to use it very much hunting in my old doubles. But well stored ammo will be good for years. I loaded it now while I had good selections of powder and wads for the loads that are double safe. No point saving it for later only to find out wads or powder are no longer available.

It was funny that a trap shooter bought all the leads shot for about a quarters its true value but told the widow the bismuth was worthless. She offered it to me for free. Not being a jerk I refused it unless she would let me buy it. I paid more than her late husband paid for it and happy to do so. She was both several thousand dollars richer and certain her late husbands trapshooting buddy was a moron. She almost threw the shot out. What a waste and shame that would have been.

as said earlier - if you want 2 1/2 non tox- you will likely need to load it yourself -


RST's site is not out of date- but never hurts to call

the fact is - they have not been able to get nice shot to load with for a couple years, and there seems to be none in sight

Rio loads bismuth in 2 3/4 but not 2 1/2-

If we are honest about it, there is a very limited market for it - waterfowl hunters with vintage guns- I am sure there are British loads made- but to my knowledge none are imported to the USA

Eley VIP Bismuth is available in 2 1/2". Fiber wads. #4, #5, & #6. It works very well.

Dennis

Who sells Eley in the states?

I can get it in NY but it can not be mail ordered under the NY Safe Act. The 2 1/2", 12 ga. is 26.5 grams, # 4's & 5's. Are you located close enough to pick it up?

The NY Safe Act has become a large problem for ammunition purchases. We are not allowed to mail order ammo for delivery in NY. And, the last time I tried to ship ammo from NY to myself for a hunting trip out of state the shipper would not take it.

I will get the stateside distributors contact info this weekend if that would help you.



Dennis

ahh - the "safe act"- 'cause 2 1/2 bismuth is the round of choice for gang bangers


where can you find it in NY? the distributor info could be helpful, although you would likely need to order a truck load

Every time I've been to the SHOT Show, Eley has a booth so there must be multiple dealers in the U.S. A quick internet search didn't reveal any though.

Sorry but my source is not retail and not open to the public. I will call our distributor the first of next week and see if there is a retail source. I have arranged for small quantity sales in the past but the "Safe Act" has ended that.

Dennis

We found the same issues for some of our imported products. The practical importation qty was so high, that we couldn't get enough turns to make ROI. So, the big stayed big.

I actually think a savvy internet sales site that dealt in vintage waterfowling kit, might make it. Maybe not.

Over all, I think RIO wants it all, so they might do some batches of 2.5's someday. It just feels that way to me. I mean, why wade in to a mature market with Bismuth loads?
If you are going to sell them, might as well make a load that's exactly what vintager's want.

woodcockhill.com looked promising but they said they were no longer going to carry them, 2 1/2 inch box of Tungsten Matrix? I would gladly pay 50.00 a box! Now to track down 2 1/2 inch tungsten matrix loads they exsist,they got to be somewhere!

Why wade into the market at all? Reload or you're SOL with your vintage gun. Or buy a new double that is steel compatible.

I've been fighting this scenario with my 16 gauge for decades now, my plan, I bought 20 gauge Gaugemates and now don't have to worry about the lack of 16 gauge shells.

Riddell, All the KTM I have are SAAMI max. Be careful.
I never saw any that weren't Max duck or goose loads.
They really flatten birds, but I don't consider them safe for an old gun.

I'm disappointed in Kent, after its beginning with low-pressure, lead, 2 1/2, non-toxic and black powder loads. The newer, fewer-gauges TM higher pressure/velocities are too hot for older doubles. Reloading keeps me going. Bismuth can't touch TM but with lots of shot and powder in stock, I'm getting by with $1.35 a shot. (At my age, the price of anything doesn't matter anyway!)

You don't even need a reloading press to load 2 1/2 " non-toxics just a scale and a roll crimper. New 2 1/2" hulls come pre primed and you can insert everything by hand and roll crimp.

I load ITX shells for my old waterfowl guns and even for my predator guns

7/8 oz ITX 8's
my old predator guns.

7/8 oz ITX BB's in this 16ga and 1 oz of ITX BB's for my combo guns for predator hunting in non-tox areas.

Running into the market forces. Currently we have RST's line of NICE shot unavailable, Correct? Who or what's next? A lot of hunters have no problems buying the cheaper steel loads and shooting them out of their guns which of course puts pressure on the other non-toxic shot producers to keep their prices in line or dropping nonprofitable lines altogether to keep the other lines going.

For anything other than occasional hunting with a vintage gun (pumps included) the outlook is bleak.

The only real answer I see is when someone purchases a vintage double his next purchase better be a MEC reloading press.

Checked the Gamebore website and didn't find any TM in 2 1/2" hulls. Looks like they're no longer offering those shells. I don't have many, but then I don't waterfowl and only need them when I'm hunting pheasants with a vintage gun, somewhere nontox is required. Too bad. They're good shells.

Larry, what's really got me going on Kent is that it is---or was---Canadian-owned which capitulated to the big-boom-is-better nonsense.

Before the hot stuff beguiled hunters, Kent Impact No. 5 TM 30g 65mm paper hull fibre wad was all you needed: 28g 6500psi, 30g 7500.

King, those are the loads I have. But they were also marketing heavier TM loads for the American market going back quite some time. I recall 1 1/4 oz loads for the 16. As I said, I'm not a waterfowler, but I did have occasion to use some of those on ducks. Nasty recoil in a light gun, but they were also nasty on the ducks.

Nasty and unneeded, Larry. What is it about North American water fowlers that they need twice the firepower of the old timers? Is it the same overseas?

I'm speaking in generalities, of course, but here's another along same lines: Was the market or makers responsible for pushing heavier loads?

Is it to compensate for lousy shooting?

As Americans we sure do like our magnum loads whether in a rifle, handgun or shotgun.