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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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This is not a V-C for sure but I was curious if the Galloping Bovine or some other French linguist(maybe English as a 2nd language) could enlighten us a bit:





The phrase being:

CHANGE D'EPREUVE FUSIL FINI

CHARGE NORMALE

CANON FRETTE FABRICATION MECANIQUE

ACIER

And is the paring of all the terms correct?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
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Sidelock
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Proof charge for a finished firearm. Normal charge (load). (That would be the service load.) Canon frette is the system used by Manufrance in particular (and some other French gunmakers) which is much like monobloc, or sleeving but with a brand new gun. Those who've seen older Manufrance Robusts will doubtless have noticed the very visible "step" (rather than a smooth joint) where the barrels fit into the monobloc.

Choked mod and full. ("Choke", when used alone in French, means full.) Proofed with powder T (which has been the only one used for French proof for about 100 years).

The French all lines up quite well, far as I can tell.

Last edited by L. Brown; 11/23/15 10:05 AM.
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Sidelock
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You can find a good explanation here (in french):

http://gravure.blog.fr/2011/03/28/la-fabrication-des-canons-a-saint-etienne-suite-10904999/

"Le canon fretté ou industrialisé"

Cheers,
Gunwolf

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Sidelock
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This is a 12 Gauge Grade 1 Robust, i.e. the lowest grade. It is I would say dating circa 1920s.
It was of course made by "Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de St-Etienne", much later known as Manufrance.

Here are the markings:

Charge d'epreuve fusil fini
proof load, finished gun: T powder 3.46grams 36 grams of shot (~1 1/4 oz)

Charge normale
Service load: T powder 2.2grams, 32 grams of shot (~1 1/8 oz)

Acier : Steel (e.g. not damascus)

Choke perfectionne: Improved choke (in the sense of better, not the choke opening). The right is 1/2 choke, the left is full choke.

Fabrication mecanique: tooled manufacturing, not done by hand

Canon frette: sleeved tubes

Hope this helps...
Crazy Bull

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Sidelock
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WC, the fretted barrel process is like sleeving, but probably best to separate it from that term. We think of sleeving as cutting off old barrels and fitting new ones. The fretting process starts out that way with completely new guns. Gough Thomas has very positive comments about the system in his "Gun Book". p. 102.

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Sidelock
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It spells CHANGE d'epreuve fusil fini, i.e. "changé"
In my opinion it means "changed", because since the "Convention Internationale Permanente du 15 juillet 19141914" confirmed in 1926, the finished gun (not only the barrels, as before) has to be proofed.

Source: http://www.forez-info.com/encyclopedie/h...nt-etienne.html

...."De ces travaux est issue la Convention Internationale Permanente du 15 juillet 1914, pour la reconnaissance réciproque des poinçons d'épreuve des armes à feu. Cette convention, ratifiée par la France le 14 mai 1926, dispense les armes revêtues des poinçons d'épreuve stéphanois de subir, de nouveau, des épreuves similaires dans les pays où elles sont exportées et adhérant à la CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente des armes à feu portatives). Elle oblige aussi à faire précéder l'épreuve de l'arme finie (mécanismes inclus) de l'épreuve des canons. Pendant longtemps en effet, et malgré les demandes des professionnels, l'épreuve ne concerna que le canon, sans tenir compte des évolutions techniques."....

Kind Regards,
Gunwolf

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Sidelock
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Gunwolf, with all due respect, it is a "CHARGE". The top of the R is just mis-stamped.
During that time frame "La Manufacture" was always stamping the proof load on the barrel flats. I have seen that mark many, many times.
I am sure you can find many more examples on the web.
Here is one for instance, with a very clear "charge".
Many people were reloading their shells and they wanted to make sure that no one exceeded the proof load.

The proof mark is indeed for the finished gun.
I don't see a provisional proof mark, but those are normally on the tubes.
As far as I know, while it is indeed mandatory to have a finished gun proof, it is not normally necessary to have a provisional proof, it is only optional. There is a special proof mark for that (crossed lightnings). I have had at least 2 guns with that mark and no provisional tube proof mark.
Makers buying tubes from the trade normally asked for provisional proofs, but makers like La Manu did not as they controlled the entire process and were confident it was a waste of time and money.
Of course this could have changed over the years. I don't have an exact time frame for my statement.

best regards,
Betail sauvage

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Sidelock
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WildCattle, sorry, of course you are right with the CHARGEI have to look more careful next time...

Gunwolf

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Sidelock
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Looks like Raimey also misread "charge" in his earlier post.

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Boxlock
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Boxlock

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Hi from Russia!
what year is the gun? Who is the manufacturer of the gun?
The gun has historical value? What real price for today?
Best regarda, Mikle

photo
http://s558.photobucket.com/user/RayKonnen1975/library/?view=recent&page=1

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