Register Log In

doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks

April
S	M	T	W	T	F	S
	1	2	3	4	5	6
7	8	9	10	11	12	13
14	15	16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25	26	27
28	29	30

Who's Online Now

0 members (), 1,035 guests, and 5 robots.

Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Forum Statistics

Forums10

Topics38,467

Posts545,124

Members14,409

Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024

Print Thread

Page 1 of 5

1

2

3

4

5

A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks #424176 10/29/15 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause OP Sidelock
OP Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 AZ but dreaming of KS	Interesting thread http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopi...cbb5792e1f04003 I have not seen E.C. No. 3 specified for smokeless proof, nor do I recall loading data marked on a Belgian gun Raimey did most of the deciphering, and more educated thoughts would certainly be appreciated! Bore 17.0mm = .669� Right choke 16.9mm = .665� = Improved Cylinder Left choke 16.4mm = .646� = Improved Modified It was proved with E.C. No. 3 : "New E.C. (Improved) No.3� was introduced in the U.S. in 1904 and was 11 grains = 1 dram equivalent; 33 grains = 3 Dr. Eq. Pre-1924 16g service load was about 1 oz. / 2 3/4 Dram (1220 fps). (4.9 grams = 75.6 grains = 2 3/4 drams) Load markings??: 81 may be grains of black powder = 3 dram 50 �plombs� (weight) may be 4.9 gram Bulk Smokeless powder = 2 3/4 Dr. Eq. (50 grains = 3.24 grams so that doesn't work) 24 is likely grams shot (about 7/8 oz.) OR 24 grains = 3 Dram Eq. of Ballistite Dense smokeless https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424178 10/29/15 05:24 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 Michigan Run With The Fox Sidelock
Run With The Fox Sidelock Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 Michigan	Originally Posted By: Drew Hause Interesting thread http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopi...cbb5792e1f04003 I have not seen E.C. No. 3 specified for smokeless proof, nor do I recall loading data marked on a Belgian gun Ne parlez Francois, Messer Hause? Poudre means powder- Plumb means lead- Acier means steel--Voice la Meinne, ou est la Tienne??? Le Foch!! Raimey did most of the deciphering, and more educated thoughts would certainly be appreciated! Bore 17.0mm = .669� Right choke 16.9mm = .665� = Improved Cylinder Left choke 16.4mm = .646� = Improved Modified It was proved with E.C. No. 3 : "New E.C. (Improved) No.3� was introduced in the U.S. in 1904 and was 12 grains = 1 dram equivalent Pre-1924 16g service load was about 1 oz. / 2 3/4 Dram (1220 fps). (4.9 grams = 75.6 grains = 2 3/4 drams) Load markings??: 81 may be grains of black powder = 3 dram 50 �plombs� (weight) may be 4.9 gram Bulk Smokeless powder = 2 3/4 Dr. Eq. (50 grains = 3.24 grams so that doesn't work) 24 is likely grams shot (about 7/8 oz.) OR 24 grains = 3 Dram Eq. of Ballistite Dense smokeless Last edited by Run With The Fox; 10/29/15 05:26 PM. "The field is the touchstone of the man"..

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Run With The Fox #424180 10/29/15 05:31 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 Michigan Run With The Fox Sidelock
Run With The Fox Sidelock Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 Michigan	Ne parlex Francois, Messer Hause? Plombe, Acacier, Cockerill, es in Belgique dom Francois, n'ces pas? Voici la Mienne, ou est la Tienne? Le Foch!! "The field is the touchstone of the man"..

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424184 10/29/15 06:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 Iowa L. Brown Sidelock
L. Brown Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 Iowa	Originally Posted By: Drew Hause Interesting thread http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopi...cbb5792e1f04003 I have not seen E.C. No. 3 specified for smokeless proof, nor do I recall loading data marked on a Belgian gun Raimey did most of the deciphering, and more educated thoughts would certainly be appreciated! Bore 17.0mm = .669� Right choke 16.9mm = .665� = Improved Cylinder Left choke 16.4mm = .646� = Improved Modified It was proved with E.C. No. 3 : "New E.C. (Improved) No.3� was introduced in the U.S. in 1904 and was 12 grains = 1 dram equivalent Pre-1924 16g service load was about 1 oz. / 2 3/4 Dram (1220 fps). (4.9 grams = 75.6 grains = 2 3/4 drams) Load markings??: 81 may be grains of black powder = 3 dram 50 �plombs� (weight) may be 4.9 gram Bulk Smokeless powder = 2 3/4 Dr. Eq. (50 grains = 3.24 grams so that doesn't work) 24 is likely grams shot (about 7/8 oz.) OR 24 grains = 3 Dram Eq. of Ballistite Dense smokeless Drew, according to Lee Kennett's list of Belgian proofmarks, load data as seen here was only an official proofmark from 1897-1903. Can't say I recall ever having seen it on a Belgian gun either. Last edited by L. Brown; 10/29/15 06:02 PM.

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424186 10/29/15 06:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,598 IL PeteM Sidelock
PeteM Sidelock Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,598 IL	OK, a few things; poudre is powder plombs is lead The crown ML is for Manufacture Li�geoise of weapons with fire, a very large factory operation in Liege. I have seen the EC markings before. They appear on guns made just prior to WWI. This was the period known as the "German School". The Germans were pressuring the Belgians about their proof house. In fact they were trying to decrease Belgian exports so they could step into the market place. In the end WWI put an end to that. The Germans did work many of their people into management at F.N. shortly after the war. Pete Last edited by PeteM; 10/29/15 06:12 PM. http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Movie.html

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424189 10/29/15 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 306 Likes: 2 Mexico City Jose Fernandez Sidelock
Jose Fernandez Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 306 Likes: 2 Mexico City	Hello: I can not help with other marks, but about the load ones: Poudre means powder and the weight is 0.81 grams Plombs means "lead shot" and the weight is 24.5 grams. 0.81 grams is equivalent to 12.5 grains 24.5 grams is equivalent to 0.86 ounces. Regards, Jose M. Fernandez

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424191 10/29/15 07:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 North Alabama ellenbr Sidelock
ellenbr Sidelock Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 North Alabama	I'm confident it is 1.81 Grammes of some Powder & 24.50 Grammes of PB. I've seen it several times but will take a bit to locate the images. Kind Regards, Raimey rse

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424192 10/29/15 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause OP Sidelock
OP Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 AZ but dreaming of KS	Thank you Larry and Pete. I'm postulating that the "poudre" specified is 81 grains (3 Dram) black powder. 50 grains of "E.C." is 3 1/2 Dram Eq. Why would a 70mm chamber 16g (image on the original ShotgunWorld thread linked) be recommended for only a 24.5 gram - 7/8 oz. load of "plomb"? Ballistite was the only Dense Smokeless in which 24 grains = 3 dram equivalent. Mullerite was marketed by Louis Muller & Cie S.A. des Explosifs de Clermont, Liege; No. 2 was a Bulk powder and 33 grains of Mullerite No. 2 = 3 Dram Eq. Yes, proving with "E.C." was not uncommon, but I've never seen E.C. No. 3 marked. https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424193 10/29/15 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause OP Sidelock
OP Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 AZ but dreaming of KS	Thank you Jose and Raimey. New Schultze was 12 grains/drachm; close to .81 grams. But how many drachms in the load? NO dense smokeless was dosed at 12 grains. Maybe C4?!? https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: A plethora of proof (and othewise) marks Drew Hause #424194 10/29/15 07:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 North Alabama ellenbr Sidelock
ellenbr Sidelock Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 North Alabama	1.0 Avoirdupois Dram = 1.77 grammes ? Kind Regard, Raimey rse

Page 1 of 5

1

2

3

4

5

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack
Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!

Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)

Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.315s Queries: 34 (0.042s) Memory: 0.8513 MB (Peak: 1.8991 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-04-26 06:45:56 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS