doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com H Leue Berlin Double Rifle - Looking for More Info

Ok just to make sure my order of operations is correct...

1 - Buy box of 9.3x74r ammo.
2 - Pull bullet from one cartridge.
3 - Fire one cartridge in shortest chamber.
4 - Attempt to slide pulled bullet into neck of fired case. If it slides in easily, I have a 9.3x74r rifle and am finished. If it does not slide in easily the rifle is 9.3x72r Sauer.
5 - If it is 9.3x72r Sauer, pull bullets from all cases. Trim brass to 72mm (or spec), replace powder (to correct load levels), cap with pulled .366 diameter bullets and I am good to go.

I guess so,sometimes I forget other people may not have a stock of 9.3 bullets, cases,etc. If you don't know someone with a stock,that procedure will work.
Mike

No stock yet, this is my first foray into double guns and old school metric cartridges!

Thanks for the advice, hopefully I can pick some ammo up and Cabelas and give it a try this weekend.

L3n4rd,
Good luck, 9.3x74R is loaded by S&B,RWS,Norma,an now Hornady. At a gunshow this past weekend,I was shown a box of this caliber( also 8x57IRS)loaded by Winchester, for the European market.If you can't find any, maybe someone can order some from one of these sources.
Mike

I know a guy in Red Deer Ab that has about 5 boxes he will sell for 55.00 a box plus shipping. I'm not sure of the manufacter but can find out. Jack

Hello all! It's been a while but I'm finally back with more info!


I got myself a box of Hornady Dangerous Game Series 286gr SPs for $8.50! I just happened to stumble upon a deal on Brownells one morning; unfortunately they sold out before I could snag more than one box. Working with advice from earlier, I fired one cartridge in each chamber. The right chamber is the shorter of the two from the chamber cast.

The first shot is the one high to the left, the second is the one dead center; exactly where I aimed. I honestly can't remember which barrel I fired first and I'd put the high flier squarely on me; I had no idea what to expect recoil-wise so I flinched a little. Unfortunately I was limited to 50ft as I test fired at an indoor range. Everyone had to get a look at what I was shooting though


Now for the dirty details. The next pic shows the case heads after firing. The right cartridge is on the right, the left on the left. Both display very deep primer strikes with the right primer being pierced through. Both primers look as though they were flattened.


The next two pics are a more angled closeup of the case heads.
Left then right.



The next two pics I attempted to show what appears to be banding near the case head on both fired cartridges. I don't believe this is present on unfired ammo.



That's it for pics. As suggested by another user, a pulled bullet slips easily into the case mouth of the fired case, I believe indicating the case length is correct. I also did not observe any rings or any other abnormalities in the chamber/barrels after firing.

I have my theories about what is happening, but will defer to the experts first. I will probably slug the barrel(s) with a lead ball now as well just for good measure.

Now that looks like something I've seen before.My JP Sauer and Sohn sxs combo did that with the rifle barrel,but that was the one mis IDed as 9.3x74R.The primers are showing pressure signs,the cause and amount of which is not determined.From the age of the double,it may have,as mine did,"dog tooth" firing pins(part of the hammer).The "fix" for mine was a "gas dicte mutter bolzen"(?)(gas tight bushed firing pin).I have no experience with Hornady ammo, so this is only a guess.I think it might be loaded hotter than European ammo.Most people fire the front trigger first, which would be the right barrel/left bullet hole-if you reloaded after the "pulled"shot and not after the second shot.In this case,cross firing this much at 50 feet would indicate higher than normal velocity.If the bullets didn't cross, the distance between the holes would be about the distance between the barrels and would be ok.This is why I use two targets(side by side),so I can shoot the second barrel as soon as I can get back on target and still know where each bullet hit.Your need to do more shooting to find an appropiate load is going to be complicated by the pierced primers.The gunsmith that corrected my rifle was in Germany(and since has retired-his son has the shop).I believe New England Custom Guns can do this type work.I'm not saying, for sure,what caused it or that you have to call NECG, it is only a suggestion.It looks like more discussion is going to be needed.
Mike

If I understand you correctly, you mean that a "dog tooth" firing pin is one that is extra long or protrudes past the breech face after firing? Or that the firing pins are built into the hammer?

At any rate I was planning to pick up some S&B or PPU ammo anyways so I'll give it another test fire with that. I would suspect Hornady ammo is hotter, especially this being dangerous game ammo.

I'll give New England Custom Guns a call and see what they have to say.

L3n4rd,
What I mean is a firing pin that is part of the hammer.They are usually larger than modern ones,and since they swing in an arc,the hole in the breech face has to be larger also.They do extend past the face in firing, but rebound with the hammer.This leaves the primer unsupported somewhat,and may be the cause of the hole in the primer.I'm pretty sure S&B ammo will show less pressure than Hornady.Of course I'm guessing with all this, since I don't have the rifle "in hand".
Mike

Ah ha. That makes a lot of sense and mirrors almost exactly what Mark from New England Custom Gun told me could be going on.

Can you describe the repair/bushing that was done/added to your gun? I have an idea of what it might look like in my mind.

I also did a little more googling last night and found reference to a 9x74 R F�rster cartridge. It seems like that could be one of the many 9.3x72s our there but I was unable to find a picture of it. Have you heard of it?

I still have to slug the bore.

If it comes down to it, are there any recommendations for custom die makers?