doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com H Leue Berlin Double Rifle - Looking for More Info

Hi guys my first post to the forums and hopefully one of many!

A local gun shop has a H. Leue of Berlin double rifle for sale and I am definitely interested in acquiring it. I have done some research and determined it is nitro proofed and made before 1912 (the load markings and N with crown proof). There are a few other proofs of which I cannot determine their meaning: a resting lion, 118/35, the two S runes on the barrels, the U with a crown, and the eagle.

I also apologize if this is bad etiquette, but I was also hoping you could help establish a value on it... the shop has it on consignment with asking of $2800. Here are the particulars.

>side safety (left side)
>rib says "H. LEUE, HOFBUCHSENMACHLE, BERLIN
>right hand comb
>9.3x74r (confirmed by chamber cast no visible caliber markings I can decipher)
>action feels tight and not shot out, no perceptible play
>extractors
>lots of engraving
>flip up rear leaf and fixed rear leaf
>locking bolt across top of action
>scope mount over right barrel
>double trigger
>on the lever that opens the action it has a crown with 7 tines and the monogram OG or GO (7 tines supposedly means baron).
>I'd say approximately 70-80% overall NRA antique. Maybe as low as 60%. Mechanically working but dings and scratches from use. Small splotch of rust and one white spot from small gouge under forearm. Bores look excellent.
>there are no known accessories, scope, case, paperwork, ammo, or reloading equipment included

I'm working on adding pictures but in the mean time the s/n is 1689.

Edit - Got pics

Run & pay them @ the opening bell in the am tomorrow. S in a Chevron denotes the tubes & effort was sourced from the Schilling forge. 118/35 is the bore diameter & I'd make sure it is 9,3X74R - Ford has a good life lesson.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, Thanks for the info and quick response!

For the bore diameter, how is that interpreted to mean a 9.3mm or whatever it actually happens to be bullet?

The chamber cast looked to be exactly 9.3x74r (that is a reasonably unique looking cartridge). It is included with the gun. It was supposedly test fired successfully in this cartridge after casting. Looking over two different editions of cartridges of the world, I didn't see anything else in the 9.3 size that looked anywhere close to 9.3x74r. Do you have any idea of what it might be, a wild cat or obsolete? Or even better, an obsolete wildcat?

Also what do you mean by "tubes & effort".

9,3X72R S&S is similar nnd possibly a few other proprietary rounds. Make case measurements @ rim, base, neck, etc. of the chamber cast. I believe 118,35 was a 8,64mm plug gauge.

The Schilling forge took some bar stock & converted it into a tube & then performed some additional task like profiling or rifling.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Lovely, just lovely fences. I haven't closely examined, but the trademark of the lion lying in repose should have Leue on the body. Pleasure us with an image of the muzzle.

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157111&page=1

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I was just thinking, probably borders on danger, but I think the 9,3X74R & the 3,5 grams of GBP were more coupled with the 108,49(8,89mm) plug gauge stamp than the 118,35 but the variation is only one choice. Plug gauge fella might have felt poorly on Monday whilst he was pushing. Theose plug gauge numbers are the same as 10 bore, 12 bore, 16 bore, etc. being the number of lead spheres to the British pound. At one point the French had their contorted equation to their unit of measure.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Any double rifle that is tight to face, has no problems with the barrels delaminating at the ribs, has decent bores, no other mechanical issues and is in the condition that one appears to be is easily worth $2,800. As Raimey said, be there this morning at the opening bell, pay the man and run like you stole it....because you just about did. If you don't, tell me where this shop is located. I paid more than that for a much older German double rifle over 20 years ago

Raimey mentioned the 9.3 X 72R Sauer and that's correct, it is similar. The 9.3 X 75R Nimrod is even closer in appearance. Easiest way is to measure the chamber cast at the rim, head, case body and length from rim to shoulder and compare them to 9.3 X 74R dimensions. They will be a bit larger than the actual cartridge but close enough to know.

I believe the use of the plug gauge to denote caliber was dropped after 1912/13 so that would date the rifle before then. Others with a better memory than mine should be along to confirm or deny that.

Thanks guys for the additional info, I didn't actually take a picture of the muzzle end to share; is there something in particular you are looking for? There were no proofs on the face of rib/piece that joins the barrels at the end (looking down through the barrels), I do not know about on the underside.

The lion in repose was intriguing to me, I'm used to seeing it as a sterling/watch proof lol.

The only other pictures I have show the damage and the fore end; I'll add them for giggles.

I think I will be going down after it today once the shop opens!