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Thanks Lonesome.

But the red jersey Detroiters probably weren't the poor, oppressed, persecuted, mistreated, Detroiters I was talking about.

King, by "anything goes boys" do you mean Bill Clinton and Co. and their insane policy of making the banking industry give mortgages to people who could not afford to repay them?

I doubt it, since you can't be honest about anything that implicates your fellow Liberal Left Socialists.

Mike, I hadn't checked recently and was a bit surprised that Chinese average wages have surpassed Mexico, but then I also would assume that productivity per man hour is much higher there too. When I worked for GM, they were already looking at Africa as a source for cheaper labor costs than China and some of the other low wage nations. The GM Bankruptcy affected only the U.S. operations even though GM spent over 30 years moving assets out of the country before crying Poor Mouth and filing Bankruptcy... only a few short years after posting all time record profits. The foreign assets were exempt from the Bankruptcy, and U.S. stockholders lost everything while the taxpayers bailed out a crooked company that wasn't near bankrupt.

While employed there, I saw robotics and automation replace thousands of good paying jobs. More automation won't help the lowly production worker, because they were also exporting automation technology and had engineers working in China setting up and training the Chinese to do work that had been too complex for them. I do OK for myself because I saw the writing on the wall years ago, and I work on automation technology and robots. I did not rely on government grants or handouts to retrain myself for what was inevitable. The push for Globalization only accelerated it, and Liberal Socialists can't bring themselves to admit that Democrat Bill Clinton's signing of NAFTA opened the floodgates. Republicans are just as guilty in advancing something that has obviously lowered the standard of living for average Americans. The lesson should have been learned, but Barack Obama is still pushing trade deals that will make it even worse.

I have no doubt the Unions screwed up, mostly due to greed and corruption at the top. Workers couldn't really be faulted for wanting and accepting wage and bonus packages that seem very fat. But in reality, wages and benefits did not keep up with inflation, especially during the Jimmy Carter years... and ... absolutely when productivity gains are factored in. When the Executive Vice President of steel company I worked for was hitting us up for more wage and benefit concessions, I pointed out to him what our annual labor cost was for wages and benefits, and told him that if we worked for free, we would still be losing millions of dollars per month. My company had the lowest labor cost per ton in the world at that time, but mismanagement and corruption led to an eventual Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation. Massive Corporate Welfare intended to create and maintain jobs had no means of insuring repayment or punitive action if those promises weren't kept and the jobs outsourced later anyway.

Half of the population did move out of Detroit to get away from the crime, high taxes, and to seek new employment. Those remaining are content to stay because many receive the equivalent of a decent middle class wage by exploiting and gaming the Welfare System and engaging in crime as an income tax-free bonus. Many refuse to pay their property taxes. They have no incentive to buy a loaf of bread and a package of bologna and hitch hike to where the jobs are. I would have considered bologna a luxury when I was seeking my first job after I graduated from college in the midst of a severe recession. That's why I don't care to hear King Brown's crap about the poor unfortunates who don't stand a chance to pull themselves up.

Quote:
"King, by "anything goes boys" do you mean Bill Clinton and Co. and their insane policy of making the banking industry give mortgages to people who could not afford to repay them?"

And doing just that(which resulted in no doc. no money down mortgages) was a plank in the commiecrat platform both times Clinton ran for President. Of course since this whole scheme fell apart during the last years of the Bush Administration even after Bush warned Congress this would happen - Guess who got the blame for it from the commiecrats?
Oh and Keith: Don't expect a straight answer from the commiecrat trolls on this forum to what you posed in your above quote. Their avoidance of anything factual would be humorous if the consequences to us responsible citizens who pay taxes and have to support this bizarre behavior weren't so dire.
Jim

No diversion intended. You asked " Is there a viable counter argument for the corporate welfare mantra?" I replied it's an accepted part of our system. Members say the US is being run by a left-wing radical. He's a centre, slightly left politician who does money's bidding as all the others.

The finance, insurance and real estate industries contributed $38 million to his 2008 campaign, including $900,000 from Goldman Sachs. Any wonder Wall Street got off Scot-free? Was there a word of Marxism when Americans bought the banks and auto industry ---the means of production---without firing a shot? Nah, it's how capitalism works, eh?

Wrong again King. There was a lot of cries of Marxism and Cronyism when GM, Chrysler, Goldman Sachs, and others got bought or bailed out by the taxpayers. Obama wasn't doing the bidding of big money when he bailed them out. He was merely paying the price to repay them and the UAW for the votes they delivered so that he could practice the most extreme Leftist agenda this country has ever seen. The TARP money that will never be repaid by GM alone exceeded their Democrat campaign contributions, so that had a good return on investment for GM.

But since you have been so frequently dishonest, why would we be surprised to see you lie again and try to tell us that Obama is "centre, slightly left"? What a load of crap!

What a fraud you are!

I'm surprised there have been no comments about the back-door Gun Control announced by the Obama Justice Dept. yesterday. I'd suggest once again calling your legislators to complain, and also supporting the NRA.

King Brown will no doubt advise that all is well and LULL you into complacency, because he supports the anti-gun Democrats 100%.

Easy diagnosis...King has brain worms.

You'd have them, too, Joe, if you'd drunk as much white lightning as me!

Quote for Keith:
"I'm surprised there have been no comments about the back-door Gun Control announced by the Obama Justice Dept. yesterday. I'd suggest once again calling your legislators to complain, and also supporting the NRA."

I for one am waiting for the specifics. Perhaps the idiot occupying the White House will again overstep Constitutional bounds and bring up impeachment as an option.
Jim

Ah, once again the subjective term "Corporate Welfare" turns up. Real "Corporate Welfare" is the awarding of other people's freedom in the forms of grants or subsidies to companies. Take Green Energy for example.

It is not Tax Credits or Tax Breaks. The Democrat sociopaths equate them together. One is a sociopathic infliction forcing an involuntary exchange of goods and services upon taxpayers, the other is limited relief granted on a political basis to connected companies.

In order to consider it the latter, you have to be a true statist sociopath and consider that the government owns all wealth and money in America, which is of course the Totalitarian view. All non-profits fall into this category, it enables politicians to buy their votes. With only sociopathic, statist, faith-based morality as the rationale. It's unconstitutional under several clauses of the Constitution.

Okay, okay, I see your point. The corporate welfare mantra is an accepted part of our system. A mythical sledge hammer of sorts, ready to crush white male politicians who're labeled to be slightly right of center.

We need another joke thread to lighten things up. Yesterday, did you see the one about the president that hunched over a podium holding one hand over the other. He sez, six years ago here's china, with the other hand he sez, here's the US just a bit above and the russians above the US. Then, smart heads come together and come up with the talking point catch word....reengage.

Punchline, the US sling shots to way up here, I was waiting for him to get up on his tippy toes and stretch his hand way over his head. Yup, I know, off topic, but I spotted a few public union women staffers in the background that still don't have pay equity.