doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Importer E. C. Schmidt, of Boston, MA

Here's some text I composed on W.R. Schaefer. Let's see if I can add or amend anything:

"In 1853 William R. Schaefer hung out his gunmaking shingle in Boston at 11 Dock Square(House?). Interesting that this is also where Fred. G. Doell hailed from while William Richard Schaefer was at No. 61 Elm Street. In 1858 his is still at the same location, 11 Dock Square, as before per the Boston Directory. By 1868 he had partnered with J. Fredrick Werner to advertise as W.R. Schaefer & J. Fred. Werner Boston. It must have been somewhat short lived as in 1871 his address is No. 61 Elm Street, Boston where he advertises as being adept to re-boring scatterguns, which was a very new topic at the time. Even though a Schoverling, Daly & Gales catalogue? gives that the rights to the Ballard rifle were purchase by Schoverling & Daly in 1876, it appears that the acquistion was actually in 1873 and this may be what paired Schoverling & Daly with William R. Schaefer, who was listed as a Schoverling & Daly agent in 1877. William R. Schaefer was a superb shot and offered an Improved Ballard Rifle in 1876/1877 while advertising as "guns bored to shoot close and hard." W. R. Schaefer donated prize money for shooting events and in 1878/1879 donated a Daly Gun for an event. The 6 1/2 P.G. Ballard Rifle with Rigby pattern tube in 38-50 arrived on the scene about 1880 and I'm curious if W.R. Schaefer was involved. The organization of W. R. Schaefer & Son occurred in the 1881/1882 time period when J.R.F. Schaefer came aboard. In the next few years another son, Richard F. Schaefer, joined their ranks and the looks to have reflected it in advertising as W.R. Schaefer & Sons. Richard F. Schaefer, Dick as he was known, like his father was quite the shot and by age 17 could put on quite the exhibition of glass ball shooting at the Raymond Sportsman's Club in Melford, Massachusetts But this too was short lived and by 1890 there was a divorce with Richard F. Schaefer leaving William R. Schaefer & J.R.F. Schaefer at the helm. From here, Richard F. Schaefer's life doesn't appear to be a smooth one as he bounced around from city to city and on July 21st of 1909 was a clerk at a hotel in Norway, Me.(Maine?) he committed sucide abandoning a wife & son. I can't say if they were still a family unit or not but it would seem that William R. Schaefer would have taken in his daugher-in-law & grandson. Another interesting tid-bit is that just a few days later on July 23rd,1909, Fred. G. Doell also expired after a long bout with poor health. William R. Schaefer may have been a cock fighter or really liked chicken as in a 1900 advert, he promotes the wares of the Cyphers Incubator Company. Probably just the latter as he was peddling dunghills and/or showing dunghills. He may still have been active in 1917."


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, thanks. That's much more than I knew before. The R F Schaefer gun does seem to predate his 1880s joining with his father and brother. ??

Also, it would be fun to fully understand how the Belgian started guns went to Germany, and then the U.S. I wonder if G. Lindner was the go between in those early years for Belgium, Germany, then on to the U.S. for Daly, Schaefer, etc. It was always my thought, though I cannot substantiate it, that the guns of this type came to the U.S. from Europe into the hands of Daly. Then on to Schaefer, Thomas Golcher, Jakob, Schmidt, etc.

Daryl, is it your opinion that these guns came here with no markings on the receiver and had the Daly, Golcher, Schaefer and other stamps applied here?

Mr. Hallquist:
I'm working of the full story. I'd have to ponder a bit, but I'd date it from 1871 to 1874, possibly a bit later. I'm somewhat confident that bulk of the adornment was applied in Suhl. Choke bore, etc. more than likely was performed in the U.S. of A.

I really don't have much faith that Dick Schaefer made many examples. He was more than likely demonstrating how they wares performed at functions.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Charles Daly, possibly thru either Hermann B�ker or either Auguste Schoverling, was the conduit for the gesteck/parts kit. 1st he went to Britain and sourced from Scott, then he more than likely sourced the gesteck/parts kit from Liege thru Auguste Francotte and a bit later, just pattern welded tubes when H.A. Lindner arrived on the scene. I just don't think the mechanics in Suhl sourced the components for Charles Daly.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

1879 Advert




1885 Advert

Elson & Schaefer - Breech-loader U.S. of A. Patent Nr. 86378 - Feb. 2nd, 1869

Sons went by J.F.R. Schaefer & Richard Schaefer(? - 1909)


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

eightbore, I'm not sure of a definitive answer to your question. As to the % of completion of the guns of Daly when they came from Europe, I think that most were done completely overseas. For Schaefer, Thomas Golcher, Schmidt, and others, I think a higher percentage of their German and English sourced doubles may have come over in the white. Was this their connection to Daly ? Did Daly furnish partially finished guns to the others ? These others certainly sold Daly guns, so there was a working relationship. Years ago I had a Daly and a Schaefer hammerless gun to view side by side. They were identical, including engraving. What % of completion was done in Europe might have varied from time to time. These "others" did have gunsmiths and we see Schaefer guns marked with Nimskie [sp?] signatures. I have seen Kirkwood drillings with no metal finish, but fully stocked, appearing like they would be finished up stateside. [these are not related to Daly, Schaefer, etc. but may be a guide as to how business was done.]

It seems there was a court case between the US and Daly where Daly was accused of evading taxes on finished imported guns by shipping different pieces of completed guns at different times. Then reassembling the finished pieces into completed guns stateside.

I found it amusing in this W.R. Schaefer & Son advert from 1888 that notes "...Engraving a Specialty." I don't recall seeing much adornment on their examples unless it refers to effort by Cuno Helfricht or L. D. Nimskie??? Anyone have any idea of the period of time during which Schaefer sourced L.D. Nimskie for engraving effort?

W.R. Schaefer & Son at 61 Elm Street, Corner of Dock Square, Boston, Mass.

Also in 1896 permits were issed for advert signs at 11 Brattle Street(W.R. Schaefer & Son) & 11 Cornhill(William R. Schaefer & Son) being one in the same as E.C. Schmidt.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I am not exactly sure of the period that certain engravers worked with Schaefer. The following hammer gun, signed, I would guess in the early 80s. The two hammerless guns , Westley Richards design , I think were in the late 1880s according to some pictures in Schaefer ads. I would guess that the Westley Richards [ A and D ] guns from Schaefer came after the Harrington and Richardson sole A and D license for America expired in 1885.

Mr. Hallquist, thanks for feeding the beast. The Gebr�der Ritz stamp is another piece of the puzzle. All the Boys Ritz I'm aware of were in Zella-Mehlis. Alfred & Emil were action guys but I'm not sure they were active that far back. Maybe Bernhard. Permit me to search a bit.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse