doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Importer E. C. Schmidt, of Boston, MA

Gentlemen, this is to request any information concerning E. C. Schmidt, of Boston, Massachusetts, said to have been a nineteenth century American importer of German / Prussian guns, as well as an importer of fine European guns from other regions.

I seem to recall reading here that E. C. Schmidt may have acquired or perhaps supplanted William R. Schaefer & Son in subtly importing from Prussia Lindner-sourced guns in-the-white for the American marketplace. Schmidt may have subsequently finished the imported guns in the U.S., as Schaefer had done. I cannot find any other information online or elsewhere about E. C. Schmidt, which company seems to have been a comparatively obscure company, given the frustrating absence of information.

I appreciate all information concerning the subject E. C. Schmidt company, especially that concerning its business relationship with Lindner and other Suhl gun-makers or area outworkers generally, and learning the dates it was in business. If you can name or cite the sources of the provided information, I would like to know that too. Posted pages from catalogs once issued by E. C. Schmidt, for example, would be very welcome. Beginning and ending trade dates for this company are important to know for my purposes.

Thank you for whatever information you can provide, which is always gratefully received. With my


Regards to all,

Edwardian

1912 Firearms License Applicants/Issue



Seems E.C. Schmidt hung out his shingle by the early 1890s and was active till at least 1912 & for the duration he was at 15 Cornhill(Washington Street????), Ward 6, Boston, Massachusetts. From the little available info, it would seem he paralleled the likes of Josef/Joseph Jakob of Philadephia being an artisian & somewhat unknown.

E.C. Schmidt (Schaefer's successor in Boston - William R. Schaefer 11 Dock Square, Boston for 1862)

F.G. Doell 11 Dock Square
Charles H. Euterbrouk - 17 Portland
W.R. Schaefer & Son, 61 Elm - owned by R.E. Denman(fire February 13th, 1894 - match dropped in packing material)
all in 1889 Listing

Richard Schaefer commited susicide in 1909.

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=104850&page=1

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

"Raimey," thank you very much for the detailed information, which is more than I had hoped to be provided, and is gratefully received.

I am researching a 10-bore boxlock ejector gun that reportedly has "E. C. SCHMIDT, BOSTON, MASS." stamped on the top-rib, is in the 142x serial number range, carries a set of Krupp steel barrels, and evinces what appear to be full side-clips. I am persuaded it is a Lindner-sourced gun. However, I have no other information anent definitive stamps or marks (requisite proofs, country of origin, whether A & D stamp is on breech face, etc.), only that it bears "German proofs" on the barrel flats. The single photograph I have is a right-side, full-length profile.

Given the information you kindly provided, however, I can now deduce that this gun is likely of post-1898 gun manufacture and is not an earlier piece, and ergo can not be defined as an antique firearm. The fact that E. C. Schmidt was in business from the early 1890's to at least 1912 is the final bit of persuasive information, which when added to the foregoing observations, brings me to that logical conclusion. Therefore, though most regrettably, the seller is correct in stating this is a "curio & relic" gun. I buy only antique guns. I will contact the seller Tuesday, in order to refute or confirm these deductions.

Thank you, once again, for your much appreciated response. With my


Best regards,

Edwardian

No worries & glad to assist, but without any images or other info, I'd probably hold with the Lindner 2nd series serialization & I'm sure Ken can narrow the date on 142x, which began in 1893 if I'm not mistaken. Also this would have been in the very late period when a 10 bore found favour with the American Sportsman.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

"Raimey," I had the same thought respecting the heyday of the 10-bore as having passed when this gun was produced. But the curiosities do not stop there. Below is the single photograph I possess of the E. C. Schmidt gun for now, until I can request more:



We immediately remark the English-style straight stock, which is said to have a chequered butt and no butt-plate or toe and heel clips. Every 10-bore I have seen had some sort of pistol-grip (full, 1/2 or 1/4). I believe this gun was stocked in the U.S. after importation from Prussia, although if this assumption is true, the use of an un-American chequered butt leaves me puzzled. The drop-point and side panel do not seem as refined, shall we say, as English- or Lindner-produced work. Alternatively, the gun might have been restocked, which may be the better explanation for these stocking anomalies. However, the forearm seems original (another reason to assert a restocking), complete with an ejector 'eye' and the trademark forend tip in evidence. Although the other trademarks, the elegant flute at the nose of the comb and a chequered panel, are not present.

I do not perceive that straight-grip butt-stocks were ever popular in the U.S. during the 1890's or immediately after the turn-of-the-last-century. Personally, I have never seen such employed with a 10-bore. This configuration is particularly at odds with experience when one considers the very heavy charges of propellant and lead shot popularly used at the time.

This 10-bore has 28-inch barrels, not the usually encountered standard length of the era, choked improved modified and improved cylinder. Certainly odd choke selections for this bore, given the normal uses for the 10-bore afield. I do not know the weight of this gun, but it cannot be anywhere near the standard 8-9-pounds in 10-bore.

The gun's full serial number is 1424, which is within the known Lindner 4-digit serial number range (Merz Antique Guns has a Daly-Lindner "Featherweight" on offer that bears serial no. 1416, being sold as an antique, and another also in that range). If Ken can narrow the manufacturing date of this gun to during or about 1893, I would be overjoyed. Hopefully when I contact the seller next week, I will learn of telling marks and stamps and even Lindner-related indicia, providing additional fodder for more questions.

Thank you for all your kind help concerning the dating of this gun. I greatly appreciate all your efforts and informed opinions. With my


Best regards,

Edwardian

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=291185&page=all

I'm not exactly what the yearly production numbers might have been but a wild guess is that it would take 3 or 4 years of example to attain that number & add some time for shipping across the pond.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

One might extract some info from here:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=196452

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

One other item, if I'm not mistaken most of the Daly Guns that were made from Scott parts kits and pre-Lindner were straight hand stocks. Could have been a repeat offender client. More than likely are not in the 1st serial number sequence.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

As Raimey mentions, E.C. Schmidt was a long time employee of William Schaefer in Boston before striking out on his own following the demise of the Schaefer concern in the mid-1890s.

The presences of (real) side clips on this gun is a significant clue. Sideclips on Prussian Dalys are first seen circa 1901/2. Sideclips are mentioned for the first time in the 1902 SD&G catalog, but the picture accompanying the write-up show a gun without sideclips. The 1903 SD&G catalog has the sideclips in the description and in the photo.

It is an odd configuration for a 10 gauge. Though that said, a couple of months ago I was admiring a neat under-lever Prussian Daly hammer gun made after 1900. The customer was king apparently, even if they wanted to order something weird.

Ken

Thanks Ken for taking time to reply. Just as an aside, where would say serial Nr. 1500 fall as a date range in the 2nd series serialization; post 1898?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse