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#404352 05/22/15 10:54 AM
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This is sort of related to Ken61's non-tox post. I asked a ACGC member gunsmith recently about whether installing steel-proof chokes on a vintage gun would allow the gun to shoot steel shot safely. I thought his response would be of interest here:

Quote:
I personally do not subscribe to the idea that changing a guns choke makes it steel shot worthy. Older guns were designed around an age of paper shotshells and felt wads with little or no wad cups to speak of. The forcing cones on these guns are short and fast in order to seal the gap with the felt wads. Now if you were to fire steel shot through this same barrel the steel shot column is contained in a modern wad however the steel shot must now arrange itself in the column as the steel shot does not compress and deform like lead does. This is why most steel shot proof guns, like all new AYA’s, have at the very least long forcing cones which allows the shot column to elongate so that the steel shot to find its place without scoring the bore. Most modern guns designed around using steel shot have long cones and are over bored for this reason. In my day of running our hone I saw many bores that had long grooves or scoring from steel shot use and it would be quite apparent after honing. This would start at the forcing cone and taper off about half way down the bore

Last edited by Doverham; 05/22/15 10:56 AM.

Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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The other issue with steel in vintage guns is pressure. If your vintage gun isn't rated for modern SAAMI-level pressure, then you have another issue to deal with in addition to the hardness of the shot and the choke. There are CIP-approved steel loads for their "standard proof" guns, which have a somewhat lower service pressure standard than under our SAAMI standard. They claim that those loads are OK for old guns (assuming good condition, still in proof, etc). However, I'm not sure I'd want to risk it. And as far as I know, those CIP standard proof steel loads aren't available on this side of the pond anyhow.

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If you are shooting a classic vintage double that is valued at 1200/1500 or more you might want to avoid steel shot...but if you are shooting a 500 dollar nitro special or a Fulton, or for that matter a 700 dollar Sterlingworth or field grade Elsie just 4 the nostalgia of hunting with a vintage double....make sure the guns chokes are no more than modified, the gun is tight, shot size is kept to 4 or or smaller, and the steel loads pressures are appropriate 4 the gun and have at it....beats the hell out of paying 40 dollars a box 4 10 rounds of soft nontox....I think this will happen more and more now, because the nontox rules are expanding to more than waterfowl hunting....


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If you don't feel like sacrificing a fine (or perhaps not so fine) double, there is always the option of a classic American repeater. Most are substantial enough to handle inexpensive steel and as long as the chokes as no tighter than modified, you should be fine. Always a good waterfowl option, if nothing else.

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The author, Worth Matthewson, in his duck hunting book BIG DECEMBER CANVASBACKS wrote that he used an L.C. Smith for all his duck hunting for many years, with steel shot, big steel shot. After years of hard duck hunting with it he had it at a gunsmith for a minor issue and had him check the chokes. He was amazed to find that they were both extra full. Said he never had the least bit of damage to the barrels.

He was not advocating the use of steel through tight choked old doubles, nor am I, but just reporting on his results with it. I found that very interesting. Just maybe, Smiths have better steel in the barrels than many of today's shooters think.

SRH


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Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
If you don't feel like sacrificing a fine (or perhaps not so fine) double, there is always the option of a classic American repeater. Most are substantial enough to handle inexpensive steel and as long as the chokes as no tighter than modified, you should be fine. Always a good waterfowl option, if nothing else.


That will work on many old repeaters. That being said, John Browning was American--although many of his classic guns were made in Belgium. And Browning recommends no steel through any of the Belgian-made Brownings, including A-5's, Double Autos, etc.

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that's because they want to $$sell$$ you a new one.....


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Larry,
The answer to that problem is one of the hundreds of A5 Hasting's screw choke barrels littering the auction sites.

Best,
Ted

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I have only seen one repeater that had it's barrel truly swaged out by steel shot. Mind you, it was a combination of all the worst possible scenarios. A situation where a very early Model 12 in full choke was used with some of the first steel shotshells (the early steel shells didn't use the now heavy-walled shot cups). I have also been present in a gun shop when a fellow handed a fairly recent Remington 870 to the smith with it's choke tube missing and the barrel cracked. You can likely guess the combination that caused that disaster. Even fairly modern and robust firearms cannot survive the combination of extra full (a turkey choke!) and steel shot.

Where single barrel guns might tolerate the use of steel shot, a lighter double will most likely not. You have ribs to consider, and a second barrel that isn't undergoing the expansions and contractions required to propel a non-compressing load of ejecta.

There are exceptions, however. Really heavy-barreled doubles seem to be able to survive a limited diet of steel. While it can't be good for them, I have done it now for several years with a 1960s era, Belgium-made 10-bore (a Double Wing variant) that I have used for waterfowl. Much like the L.C. Smith previously mentioned, it shows no obvious signs of the abuse it has suffered (mind you, I opened the chokes to slightly less than Modified first).

Last edited by Lloyd3; 05/23/15 01:04 PM.
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FWIW: A John Browning design that wasn't made in Belgium.



This one's a 20.

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