doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Vintage Skeet Chokes

Bob's thread got me looking into my files re:Skeet Chokes. We've had threads here with gentleman contributing measurements of their vintage doubles that were intended for Skeet.

A two-page spread appeared in the Feb. 1926 issues of National Sportsman and Hunting and Fishing, announcing �A New Sport for Shotgun Shooters� and a $100 prize for the best name for the new shooting game. The May 1926 issues announced the winner, Mrs. Gertrude Hurbutt of Dayton, Montana, and the new name "Skeet" from an old Scandinavian word for shoot. Early scores averaged 15 or so, but by July the first 25 was recorded by H.M. Jackson of North Carolina.

An ad introducing the L.C. Smith �Skeet Upland Special� appeared in Hunting and Fishing in June, 1928 and it was shown with double triggers, pistol grip stock, and splinter forend.
In the Hunter Arms 1929 catalog, the �Upland� was gone and the �Skeet Special� was shown with a straight grip stock, checkered wood butt, �Skeet Choke No. 1 right and No. 2 left,� and �Streamline Beaver Tail Forend,� at a price of $47; $92 with Hunter One-Trigger and Automatic Ejectors.
I�ve seen no Hunter Arms literature or advertisements explaining the No. 1 & No. 2 chokes. Later catalog listings stated �bored to order from full to cylinder�.
Measurements:
1928 Skeet Special 12g - The left barrel will not allow the 12 gauge full choke ring to enter. The right barrel allows the improved modified choke ring to enter.
1934 Skeet Special 12g - .007 left & .015 right
Skeet Special 12g - .035 left & .015 right.
Premier Skeet 12g - .016 left & .014 right.
1949 Premier Skeet 12g - .005 left & .010 right

The A.H. Fox Skeeter was introduced in 1931 and the Sterlingworth Skeet and Upland in 1935, with automatic ejectors, Fox-Kautzky selective single trigger, beavertail forend, recoil pad, and ivory beads.
In the Savage-era Fox catalogues they listed the chokes of their Skeet guns as Skeet Cylinder right and 1/4 choke left.
Measurements:
2 Fox guns, 1936 & 1937, guns both have .728� bore. The left barrels have .010" choke and the right barrels have .004" and .005" constriction, then flare to .740" in the last inch.

The Ithaca NID Skeet Special was advertised in the July 1926 National Sportsman, only 2 months after the game was named! The Ithaca Lefever Grade A Skeet Model with AE, ST, BTFE and �skeet chokes� was introduced in 1934.
2 Ithaca NIDs, 1935 & 1936, have choke designations of �S� on all four tubes.
12g - .016 left & .009 right 20g - .014 left & .008 right.

Parker
A 1932 Parker advertising folder showed a �Special Skeet Gun� with �skeet-in/skeet-out� chokes, 26-inch barrels, AE, single trigger, straight stock and beavertail forend, but factory production records have identified guns as early as 1929 specified as having �skeet-in/skeet-out� chokes.
pp. 410-411 in The Parker Story section on Skeet Guns, indicates that the right bbl. is choked tighter since it is usually fired first, and the first target in a Skeet double is the outgoing one and shot at a longer range than the incoming, second bird.
Measurements:
Skeet-configured VHE 12g - .020 left & .017 right
GHE 20 - .011 left & .014 right.
VHE 20 - .010 left & .008 right.

In 1937, the Stevens No. 500 Skeet Single Trigger Double Barrel Hammerless Shotgun was introduced with 26- or 28-inch barrels in 12- and 16-gauges and 26-inch barrels in 20-gauge with ��special Skeet boring for Skeet, Brush or Upland Shooting.� The �special Skeet boring� is not explained.


Capt. E.C. Crossman �Skeet Gun Patterns� in August 1936 Hunting & Fishing



He formerly believed��the proper boring for a double 12 Skeet gun consisted of an improved cylinder right for Station 8 and incomers, and a much tighter tube on the left for the outgoers and all singles except Station 8; such a boring as improved modified or the famous Winchester No. 2 Skeet, or in barrel measurements, around .015�.�
But now feels �the Winchester No. 2 Skeet boring is too tight�� and �improved cylinder or No. 1 boring is both barrels seems about the right dope.�
He went on to criticize the Cutts spreader tube on single barrel guns for skeet, but did not define the tube diameter.
He mentioned a Fox with .011� left and a Model 32 Remington �bored for skeet� lower barrel .012�.
�Improved cylinder is the greatest degree to which a plain barrel should be opened, this being not less than .004�. The finest example of this at present is the Winchester No. 1 Skeet boring, which has about .004 choke at a point 3� from the muzzle. The muzzle section then becomes larger�until finally the barrel at the muzzle is about .75� instead of the normal .73� of the 12. This is a relieved muzzle or bell muzzle, originated by Ithaca years ago.�

Interesting reference to Ithaca chokes, and hopefully Walt or Dave will comment.

Please contribute your measurements!

Maybe it's because of better shotshell technology or something, but I don't think you need any choke for American skeet, if you're shooting at least 3/4 oz loads. I don't shoot straights all that often, but I've shot a few with 3/4 oz 8 1/2's or 9's through a 20ga that was choked 000/007. Back in "the day", those guys were probably shooting 1 1/8 oz loads in a 12ga. Can't imagine you'd need any choke with those, for any American skeet target.

Skeet was originally shot from a low gun position, and maybe with a delay, so the outgoing targets were shot from a greater distance than today's American skeet, so some choke was needed.
I always preferred some choke in my skeet guns, but Winchester apparently didn't agree, as the later 101 skeet guns were cylinder bore in all gauges. I don't recall any champions shooting 101's in those days though. I like 0.004" in the 12, and about 0.005" in the 20 and 28, with 0.007" in the .410. I first shot into AA class with a Remington 3200 fitted with tubes by Claude Purbaugh, and they were choked pretty much as above with the exception of the 20 ga tubes which had 0.017" of choke.

Early on, William Harnden Foster suggested Modified for a single barrel gun, or Mod for outgoers and cylinder for incomers. This may be his son with Foster Sr's 27" barrel 20 gauge DHE Parker SN 225905 shooting low gun

If a slow shooter or a low gun shooter I think you are better off with a bit of choke, particularly for the far bird on doubles.

Also, cold & damp pitch targets and some biodegradable targets seem to break much better w/#8 shot than 9's.

I don't know what the best measurements are for skeet. However, the best shooter in our club in 1964 shot a Browning O/U trap gun he had sawed 2" off the barrels removing any choke. I was horrified watching this work as I couldn't conceive such a desecration of a gun I couldn't afford. The barrels weren't even square or smooth having been cut with hacksaw and coarse file. So cylinder bore was not a handicap at all. This statement would be relatively meaningless except that our shooters included skeet legend Al Buntrock who shot a Remington 1100 Skeet gun at the time. The best shooter wasn't eligible for the Olympics as he was a professional having shot live pigeon in Europe, sponsored by AYA if I recall correctly, making about 20 times his Army pay in his spare time.

When I was young and starting out in NSSA skeet and was too poor to buy a real Model 12 Skeet Gun, I made my 12- and 20-gauge skeet guns by having Simmons whack the longer barrels of Model 12 field guns to 26-inch and fit their 3/8 inch wide vent ribs. I posted enough 100 straights with those two guns to know in my mind "you don't need no stinking choke" for NSSA skeet targets.

A few years back I picked up a Remington Model 31TC in a multi gun deal. Its original 30-inch modified choke vent rib barrel had been fitted with an ITC choke tube giving it .054" choke. By chance I happened upon an unmolested Model 31TC 30-inch modified choke barrel. Even had the same year date code as the barrel on my gun. Once my machinist buddy had the new barrel fitted and working fine I had him whack the original barrel through the first rib support and reset the front bead. Another fine skeet gun!!

In the last few years I've picked up a 20-gauge vent ribbed SKEET barrel for my 20-gauge Remington "Sportsman" and a 12-gauge Remington Model 31 SKEET barrel. The chokes in those barrels are similar to Winchester's WS-1 or Savage's skeet cylinder in their Fox Skeet & Upland Game Guns. About .005" or .006" choke and then a flare in the last inch or so to the muzzle.

I shoot skeet low gun almost all the time, and I have shot it with the variable delay. Doesn't slow you down that much once you're used to it. Especially if you're shooting 1 1/8 oz in a 12ga, I can't believe cyl would handicap you at all--unless you're REALLY slow getting the gun to your shoulder.

I learned to shoot skeet when I was in the Navy at San Diego 1971 through 1973, and my primary coach was Chief (ret) Al Buntrock!! In 1974, I was on the team representing Chugach Rod & Gun Club from Alaska at the Armed Forces Skeet Championships at Ent AFB, and afterwards I cashed in my plane ticket to San Diego and rode with Al in his big Oldsmobile Tornado down to San Diego for the All Pac Fleet Skeet Championships at NAS Miramar.

Here is the skinny on the Ithaca skeet chokes. I think the letter and the drawing tell the tale.