doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cheap shells versus expensive guns

Pigeons over a feed-lot! 'Not a turkey hunter, eh?

Regards
Ken

We were changing out some hydraulic hoses yesterday on an 8 row bedder and a big gang of crows kept swinging by. They came a little too close and I walked to the truck, pulled out my old 32" Montgomery Ward loaded with Nitro Express 4s, and decked one at about 60 yards. The others talked bad about my ancestry for awhile.

SRH

The loads "replacement" mentions were intended for CAS shooters. Today, Federal loads a 7/8 ounce Top Gun at 1200 fps, the same as the previously mentioned paper load. However, without testing, we don't know the pressure of either. By the way, the latest price on the Top Guns is $52.25 a flat. I'm shooting them in all my 12 gauge guns, including Damascus. I have no idea how they could load a 1200 fps 7/8 ounces load that would damage any gun.

Where do you guys buy 1 1/4oz 3" loads? These are all 1 3/8oz loads. I get a headache thinking about feeding them to a double, and even the Stupid Black Eagle is unpleasant to shoot with loads like that.

I was never impressed with any #4 load I patterned, back in the day. I doubt I ever tried one that had more than 1 1/4oz in it, which, is about 169 pellets.
I'm more recoil sensitive, now.

Best,
Ted

Well, this discussion was profitable and enlightening. I see that I share the same feelings as many here regarding loads, etc for wild pheasants. As stated earlier, I have only been pheasant hunting (wild birds) for 13 years this coming November. But in that time I have experimented with various loads, some of them older offerings from days gone by as many of you here relate. The load that I have pretty much stuck with for the last couple of years has been Fiocchi #5's (or 6's depending on availability) in either 12 or 20, with the corresponding load applicable to the gauge, but generally not more than 1 and 1/8 in 20 and 1 and 1/4 in 12. One thing guaranteed though: nothing longer than 2.75 inches in either. This year I have a new (to me) Ithaca 37 in 16 gauge (my first ever) that I have a stock of 1 and 1/8 oz loads of 6's procured that I will have a go at the wild ditch parrots with. I have already blooded it on preserve quail (8's) and chukkar (7.5's) and it does its job if I do mine.

As to my initial question regarding "why not shoot WalMart shells in fine guns", we have talked all around it while enjoying a sampling of each others' favorite loads but I don't think I ever heard a precise point made other than someone who alluded to "pressure" and wear on metal as well as wood and most of all "shoulders" from light guns. Soooo, I will accept that and thank everyone for the discussion!!

Sorry Perry, but I had incorrectly assumed that you probably knew the reason to avoid shooting the low cost Wal Mart type promo loads in your vintage doubles.

These typically cheap low brass shells can actually produce peak pressures equal or greater than many higher dram equivalent high brass shells because one of the ways the manufacturer keeps the cost lower is by using smaller charges of faster burning powder. The result is a higher and quicker peak pressure, something to avoid if you wish to shoot vintage doubles with the type of loads for which they were designed. Pressure has virtually nothing to do with recoil other than the fact that it is pressure which produces the velocity of the shot. Shot charges of promo loads are usually smaller than most high brass premium loads, but the velocities are right up there, and the recoil impulse can be a little hard on 100 year old wood.

That said, many of these old doubles have been used with anything that would fit in the chambers. Of course, many are loose, off face, and worn out for a reason too. Since we know better, it is prudent to give them the proper diet so they can last for many more years. An Indy car can go nearly 200 MPH. But they rebuild the engine after 500 miles if it finishes the race.

Ted, I've never shot anything bigger than 5's at pheasants; mostly 6's (American or Brit). However, in his "Shotgun Book", Jack O'Connor talks about a friend of his who shot 4's (I think 1 1/4 oz) through an IC choke. Per Jack: "I have patterned his improved cylinder barrel with his favorite shot size, and at 35 yards the patterns have holes that you could throw a cocker spaniel through." Yet O'Connor says the guy did very well with that choke/load combo.

Recoil, schmecoil. Get ya' a good ol' heavy 32" gun, strap on a Kick Killer pad, load her to the gills, point her in the right direction, close both eyes and yank that trigger. When the crow falls you never remember it kicking.

I don't normally shoot 3" loads, but I would if I had 'em.

SRH

Several years ago while on a Quail hunt in central texas a friend of mine,who is a good shot, said he was not killing birds as he usually did.
Asking what ammo he was using , he showed me the cheap 12 ga Dove loads by WW .
I suggested a test, which I Was already familiar with ,of putting a Aluminum can at 25 -30 yds and trying his loads and my AA 1 oz loads in his Beretta auto.
The results were shocking to him as the quality loads put about twice as many pellets in the can as the promotional loads.. Try it yourself !

I don't know that I own a heavy gun. Since both of the safes are full, I doubt I'll start looking now!
Stan, I get why you shoot the crows, but, if I fire a round of ammunition at something I expect to eat it. If I eat crow in the future, it will be in the figurative sense, only.
Enjoy.

Best,
Ted