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Originally Posted By: King Brown
US cowardly and craven, Ken? I think of the US as General Bernard Montgomery's subordinates thought of him: "Insufferable in victory and magnificent in defeat."


Obviously, it is the Democrat party, your fellow believers who are craven. The real lesson of Vietnam, was not to have a Democrat President. Ford failed in his responsibility to go to South Vietnam's aid when the North launched their 1975 offensive. All spelled out in the Paris accords. Democrats controlled Congress and prevented Ford from acting.

Last edited by Ken61; 03/14/15 05:49 PM.

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Here's a list of Presidential Unit Citations awarded during Korea, many were issued during the retreat from the Yalu. Here's the site.

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/p_kwar_unit_citations.htm

1st Provisional Marine Brigade (7 August-7 September 1950)
Tribute to 1st Marine Division Korean War Veterans
1st Marine Division (27 November to 11 December 1950)
HQ, 1st Marine Division, Division Memorandum No. 238-50, 19 December 1950 Operations in the Chosin Reservoir Area
Distinguished Unit Citation, General Orders 18, Co. K, 15th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division (3rd Award), 10 March 1955
Distinguished Unit Citation, General Orders 923, Company A, 5th Infantry Regiment 5th RCT and the First Section, Machine Gun Platoon, 5th Infantry Regiment, 5th RCT
and Forward Observer Team, 555th Field Artillery Battalion, 5th RCT,11 October 1953
Commendation from Capitol Division, Republic of Korea Army, to US 987th AFA Battalion, 18 August 1952
Presidential Unit Citation, 65th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division, June 1953
Presidential Unit Citation, 1st Marine Division, Reinforced, 21-26 April, 16 May to 30 June, and 11 to 25 September 1951]
Meritorious Unit Commendation, General Orders N. 243, 28 February 1953, to the 1st Loudspeaker and Leaflet Company
Distinguished Unit Citation, General Orders No. 35, Companies I and L, 35th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division, and Heavy Machine Gun Platoon, Company M, 35th Infantry Regiment, and 75-mm Recoilless Rifle Platoon, Company M, 35th Infantry Regiment, 8 April 1952
Presidential Unit Citation, 1st Marine Division, Reinforced, 15 September to 11 October, 1950
ROK PUC, HQ & HQ Co X Corps, HQ & HQ Battery X Corps Artillery, HQ & HQ Battery 5th Field Artillery Group, 50th Anti-Aircraft Artillery battalion (Self-propelled), 92d Armored Field Artillery Battalion, 96th Field Artillery Battalion, 8221st Army Unit Field Artillery Topo & Met Detachment, 2nd Engineer Special Brigade, 44th Engineer Construction Battalion, 58th Engineer Treadway Bridge Company, 73d Engineer Combat Battalion, 79th Engineer Construction Battalion, 185th Engineer Combat Battalion, 53d Engineer Boat & Shore Regiment, 4th Signal Battalion, 56th Amphibious Truck & Tractor Battalion, 15 September to 24 December 195
1st Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment & its supporting unit 'C' Troop, 170th Independent Mortar Battery, Royal Artillery
Naval Unit Citation, 1st Marine Division, Reinforced, 11 August 1952 to 5 May 1953 and from 7 to 27 July 1953
Distinguished Unit Citation, 2d Infantry Division and attached unit, Battery C, 937th FAB, 16 to 22 May 1951
Naval Gunfire Detachment of ANGLICO, assigned to X Corps to support the evacuation from Hamhung-Hungnam immediately following the breakout from the Reservoir.
Distinguished Unit Citation, General Orders No. 35, Companies I & L, 35th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division, and the following attached units: Heavy Machine Gun Platoon, Company M, 35th Infantry Regiment; 75-mm Recoilless Rifle Platoon, Company M, 35th Infantry Regiment.
24th Military Police Company, 24th Infantry Division, Meritorious Unit Citation
Headquarters & Headquarters Co. & Medical Co., 21st Infantry Regiment, 24th Infantry Division
24th Infantry Division and attached 441st Counter Intelligence Corps Team, 2 July to 15 Sept 1950
7th Infantry Division - ROK Presidential Unit Citation for period 8/1945-12/1948 and 17/09/1950-27/03/1951

Last edited by Ken61; 03/14/15 12:14 PM.

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Thanks, Ken.

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The difference between a "Retreat" and a "Rout" is that a retreat is a planned operation. When units are overrun by overwhelming forces sometimes they "Break", temporarily lose unit cohesion, and are "Routed" from their positions. (Sauve qui peut!) Attacking forces are also 'Routed" when the attack halts and the men retreat back to their own lines. That happened during the Chinese onslaught, but it happened on the "Tactical" level, as units are always told where to reassemble if that ever happens. The alternative is envelopment and capture or annihilation.

In the face of such overwhelming numbers, the UN units were forced to retreat South, fighting and delaying all the way, and at the same time forcing the Reds to pay a heavy price. They were able to keep their units fairly intact, and thus avoid the devastating consequences of envelopment. This was an "Operation", part of the "Operational Art", as a successful retreat is perhaps the most difficult thing to perform.

Last edited by Ken61; 03/14/15 06:23 PM.

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Germans were masters, most professional in retreat.

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
You're really using your head, James. It's something I never considered. The first thing I thought of was the possibility that all those who come out on overpasses to pay respects along The Highway of Heroes to our dead coming home may be members of the military, veterans and their families.

It's true that Canada fights well and comes to the call to battle but tends to neglect its military between wars i.e. Boer, First, Second, Korea. We've stripped our armed forces of care and materiel since we joined these new ones against insurgencies. Your view makes sense to me.

Could it be that it's more a national ennui or malaise than left or right, something in our character, of considering our military and war differently because of our modest influence in the world? We are significantly different from Americans in displays of patriotism, the secular, the collective, and social order.



I live on the Highway of Heroes. Passed the most recent procession. It's not military people, it's run of the mill who recognize the sacrifice and aren't part of the big city mindset.

At this point I don't believe its left or right. But PC started with the left. Anti war was the hallmark of the left. Disdain for those who fought. Who enlisted. Who got drafted. You do remember the sixties?

I try, in my thinking, not to be guided by ideology but what is logical, sensible, reasonable, ethical, moral and workable. Turns out, it usually means I'm on the right. And in the right as well. You should try it King. laugh


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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I don't know a soul who isn't right and left, one way or another, James. My work with rural people, in the fisheries or forestry, involves a non-union collective usually associated with the left, but also financial sustainability paying for our work from fish and wood, not the public purse; conservative through and through.

If only the right would do business that way; what we get are corporate welfare bums. Royal Bank of Canada, one of the world's great banks with quarterly profits in the billions last week squeezed a huge gob of money from our disadvantaged province to locate a call centre here. We subsidize their jobs.

We're doing it right, James, but the big guys only play along!

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It would appear the firearms industry is finding new methods of outreach. Good on them, if we were to introduce new people to the shooting sports, perhaps that would help. It is interesting that MIT is finding converts, firearms, their mechanics and ballistics present special challenges to the engineering mind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/gun-...19d2_story.html


Jim H.
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Except it won't do much for the sport as we know it, Jim. My dozens of offspring love to shoot everything I own on my ranges; anything with eyes, no.

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Why must the "shooting sports" fit your rather narrow definition?


Jim H.
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