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Skb:
I've stated many times that winning the war in Iraq,while initiating it was IMO a mistake, could be accomplished but winning the peace was another matter entirely. This war was won under the Bush administration and the peace lost when the incompetent idiot occupying the White House withdrew all support contrary to the recommendations of his senior military officials.
If the current occupant of the White House has "gotten anything right" in 6 + years it's news to me.
As fellow gun owners we need to be united in 2016 to make sure that another incompetent fool like Clinton is kept out of the White House so we can begin rebuilding what has been lost in this Country as far as credibility and prestige and repairing the economic disaster this administration has created.
Jim

I stand by it from the very beginning of these 'discussions'. We, the US not some vague coalition, need strategic military bases, permanently, as eyes, ears and for response capability in that unstable hot bed of this world. Hey, maybe bo should have lunch with the Israeli PM, likely a bargain for us.

I don't think we have the will to 'win' anything over there most of all 'hearts and minds'. The waste is 'nation building', the rhetoric should be rolled out in name only for tv clips. Didn't we have to ask permission from 'friends', who had their social media jihadi network, to enter the area.

An honest look around the world and through history can show that strategic US military bases easily have the ability to stabilize problem countries, leaders and movements.

My current favorite? Your fairly proficient this morning at twisting things. I have stated several times on this forum that BO may be the worst president ever. That now makes him my favorite? Come on now Craig you have to be better than that.

You seem to want to wipe away all of W's failings by pointing out those of BO. How does one cancel the other? The way I see it both of our last two presidents were completely incompetent.

As to the soldiers, I feel a great debt to them for the sacrifice they made. They served our country bravely and with valor. I know a few Veterans who served in Iraq. I can not say all of them seem to be convinced the war was worth while. None of this makes the decision to invade Iraq a good one.

So other than saying BO has made bigger mistakes W, which seems to your main line of reasoning, how again was the Iraq war a good idea? It was not. Try again and this time maybe attempt to refrain from putting words in mouth? I know you can do it.

Steven, you may mention that bo is the worst president ever, but you don't explain it or personally attack him like you do the previous. Yes, I spin things, not because that makes it right or better, but I find it interesting that it's a tactic that you're comfortable with, but uncomfortable on the receiving end.

I never said the previous president was without justified criticism for his policy, but you're the one that made fun of his name and gave him a legacy that you might be able to better than that. The previous president worked with a hostile congress, spent gobs but didn't have near the cajones of the current fellow, and stopped attacks on the homeland. Maybe if he shoots his mouth off constantly like the one right before him, I guess ok in your book, his stock might go up a bit.

To add another reason to my clear, in my mind, need for eyes and ears in hot spots. I'd also add, these bad guys do not, period, understand 'talk'. They live and die by the sword, and only respect the big dog in town. The use of military lethal force is absolutely necessary, how, when and where it's applied should be up for debate. I could only guess that you think it's possible to talk the iranians down from their nuclear weapon program and development of delivery systems.

The military costs money, no question. I don't think I put words in your mouth. I'm just pointing out, inconsistencies. If you think it lacks substance and fact, reread the quote picked and the part I snipped out for substance.

Decent 'conversation' Steven, but you have a foregone conclusion. Iraq invasion bad, then things go round in circles. You can do better than that. I never said iraq = good, did I, you put that thought in my mouth. I did say that I believe there're hugely important points to consider that have been squandered. I also never said the decision to go was not up for debate, but the duty of the troop taking orders on the ground, shouldn't be constantly intermixed as you prefer to repeat.

What makes you hold back from criticism of the current fellow owning some of his decisions and results. You do know that bo said we won, they can take care of themselves, we can leave. Without putting words in your mouth, your silence does have a clear message to me.

I just rattled off a list of BO's deficiencies and stated he has more. Apparientltly I have not attacked him with sufficient ferocity for you. I'll try to be more denigrating to him in the future so as you do not misunderstand. I do not like BO in the least.

I feel that having eyes and ears in worlds hot spots is no reason to start a war. If that really was the justification for invading Iraq maybe it should have been presented to America and the world as such. Saddam Hussein presented zero threat to us here in the USA. That was the reason the American public was given for this war, not so we have intelligence gathering capabilities.

I guess maybe we both have very different views on world politics. The reasons you stated for war fall far short of what I would consider valid. How many others countries should we invade to gather intelligence Craig? I think we can do better as a country than that.

So Jim what you have done? Left our troops in Iraq with zero legal protection and subject to the Iraqi justice system? That is what negotiations broke down over If I remember correctly.

I do not approve of BO, but had he done that the repercussions would not have been good for our soldiers.

It's crass to draw attention to members for misspelling or hitting the wrong key, an overbearing rudeness. None is blameless for misspelling. We all do it. How persons spell is not an indicator of character or intelligence. What counts is what we mean by our words.

I know I'm on Jim's ignore list, which is fine with me. I answer his as a caution that there's already enough rudeness here without picking on members for their spelling. There's also a peculiar notion here that by my not engaging with a particular member I'm not ignoring him because I read his posts.

It's essential for some to feel their opinions are so important they are not being ignored: hey look everyone, my posts are being read, see, I'm not being ignored even if he doesn't reply to my posts. Reading and not caring to engage are two different things. Jim has his way and I have mine; both are happy as clams.

Thanks for telling me about the latest personal swipe from Brown since he's on my ignore list. The ONLY reason I'm commenting is to demonstrate just how far out in touch with reality he is. If you look at my post there's a grin attached to it. That indicates to all but the densest that the post isn't meant to be serious.
Now maybe you can see why he's being ignored.

But King, it's the reason that you don't care to engage certain people at certain times that's so amusing and tells us so much about you.

In my case, you made the false claim that I put words in your mouth after I had quoted you verbatim... (that's word-for-word, for SKB). Later you made the equally false claim that I had "dishonoured" your father, when nothing could be further from the truth.

You also dance away from other people at various times when they catch you in a lie or confront your bullshit. You can never admit it when you are wrong, and you think we'll all forget your Lies or Anti-Gun rhetoric when you just disappear for a day or two, or just bow out of a particular thread. A fresh case in point is your non-response to Brian in reference to his position on deserters like Bergdahl which was 180 degrees out of phase with your typical Libtard Leftist crap. Brian made Obama look like the incompetent that he is, and there was no way you could parse it differently... so you dance away from it.

You are the most dishonest, disingenuous, hypocritical person to ever soil this board. And you don't like it that's it's being illuminated. The most egregious rudeness here is from you telling us Lies in order to advance your Leftist agenda. Why don't you tell everyone that Jim is ignoring you because he is disgusted with you and your incessant Lies and Bullshit... and tired of trying to get a pathological prevaricator (you) to admit that he was presenting falsehoods.

Little Stevie Blunder still can't let go of that Bush. I wonder when it was that Bush 43 became a dictator? Maybe Stevie can tell us, because he acts as if Bush unilaterally took this country into war with Iraq.

Here's a Senate Roll Call of the Vote on the Resolution to Invade Iraq:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/senaterollcall_iraq101002.htm

Little Stevie Blunder never ever seems to mention the names of leading Dumbocrats who, acting on the same somewhat flawed intel as Bush, voted to take out Saddam Hussein... who absolutely was in violation of U.N. Sanctions levied against him.

I have already mentioned that Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Dianne Feinstein, and Chuck Schumer agreed with Bush. Joe Biden was another leading Dumbocrat who voted to go in. Other leading Dumbocrats such as Bill Clinton also felt Saddam needed to be taken out. Gallup polling at the time showed 86% support of the American public too.

A big problem was that after a wildly successful entry, many of these same supporters of the war began pushing for limiting the U.S. Troops effectiveness, and called for stricter rules of engagement. We had unfortunately given Saddam many months to either hide or dismantle many of his WMD, but some were still actually found... something that people like SKB will never ever mention. Then we saw the very same Democrats who voted to go to war turn on Bush and act like they had no involvement. When the insurgency was allowed to gain a foothold and we began seeing more casualties from IED's, etc., we began to really see the effects of the massive military budget cuts under Bill Clinton. Remember those inadequately armored HumVees, and Rumsfields' famous line, "You go to war with the army you have."

I'll believe SKB's "I'm a Conservative" act when we start seeing him blaming Democrats for massive and costly foreign policy blunders. Until then, I'm throwing the Bullshit Flag. He did manage to take this thread off of the original topic of extreme anti-gunner and uber-socialist and Left Wing Democrat supporter George Soros. Maybe that was his full original intent.

King is right about the occasional spelling error. We all do it, and it's easy enough to do when you're typing quickly. But when you make repeated errors and don't go back and correct them as SKB does, that suggests that ignorance or stupidity might be involved.



... so sayeth the window licker.