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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
I've owned 2 bite, 3 bite, and 4 bite lock-ups. Of course the 4 bite is just a 3 bite split in two [we're talking hammerless only]. Are there any other variations? (other than the Greener cross bolt gun pictured in the DGJ)?
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Ross, WOW...half are improved...that's great considering that the improved models were only manufactured during the last 4? years of production (of 16?).... I'll bet that just knowing of the improved '94s will change which will be the last to go when you do sell...I'll bet just knowing will influence how far you're willing to go on future purchases.
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Perhaps these improvements were in response to the lightning fast lock speed of the Flues model that had just made its debut c1907...there's no denying that the Flues model drove Remington right out of the SxS business...I would love to hear if someone has opposing views...Bob Chambers, Buffalo NY
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110 |
Rev,
The Damascus on the Remingtons above A-Grade varied at the customer's request. I have a fairly early BE-Grade that has the Damascus identified as "Chain J." on the Remington salesman's sample. The normal for the A-/AE-Grades seems to be "Oxford 2 S.J." but Charlie shows an AE-Grade with "Peiper P."
Dave
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110 |
Robert,
I doubt the Flues had anything to do with Remington dropping break action guns. They had the rights to the U.S. manufacture of the Browning designed autoloading gun, and could see what the future held. Already in 1907, the Grand American Handicap was won by an amatuer, J.J. Blanks, from Trezevant, TN, with a Remington Autoloading Gun.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
I view improved 94's and 1900's in much the same way as the Ithaca Depression era Star models...Ithaca doubles made around the time of the Depression sometimes received extra fit and finish by employees who were struggling to hold on to their jobs. The last few years of the Remington double line was under the same dark cloud and employees were also struggling to hold on their jobs. Ithaca is only about 100 miles away from Ilion, surely there was some degree of awareness that many were about to lose their jobs to their neighbors. Stock makers and machinists could be used in the Rem 1911 shotgun line but double gun specialists had some serious reckoning to do. Keep in mind that while they were contemplating, they were filing and fitting the Improved Models. The Improved Model was an attempt, by Remington, to maintain their market share.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
Researcher,..I didn't see your last postings until I posted my last response...
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315 |
Thanks Dave, any idea about the name of the very high grade damascus used on E and D Grade guns? I've got pics on the PictureTrail but don't know how to label them.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
Hey Researcher, I'm not an expert on Remington doubles...I like them...I'm interested in the (still uncharted) evolution of the'94s...but I am certainly no expert. If I speak with conviction, of course it doesn't mean I can't be wrong. My wife will tell you that I'm wrong most of the time. I appreciate that you base your hard earned responses on evidence rather than conjecture. I hope that you find the exchange to be educational. It would be wrong of you or I to alter our observations and records to match up with anyone elses without contrary evidence or reasonble plausibility. If your data points in some other direction, please say so.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 973
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 973 |
I checked my guns tonight and out of nine of them 3 were the improved pattern. The lowest number I have in the improved style is P132XXX 12ga CEO. The highest number I have in the standard style is 125XXX CE Damascus 12ga.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110 |
Rev,
The Damascus barrels on the EE-Grade Remington you show in your Damascus picture trail is the pattern they called "Peiper P". The BE-Grade you show appears to me to have the "Oxford 4.S.J." barrels. The Remington Arms Co. catalogues are pretty oblique about the Damascus on their hammerless doubles --
KD-/KED-Grade -- Damascus
A-/AE-Grade -- Two-stripe Damascus
B-/BE-Grade -- Three-stripe Damascus, some mid-period catalogues say Fine three-stripe Damascus
C-/CE-Grade -- Finer Damascus
D-/DE-Grade -- Very fine Damascus, later catalogues say Extra fine Damscus
E-/EE-Grade -- Finest Damascus
Last edited by Researcher; 05/11/07 11:40 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110 |
Robert,
It is all purely conjecture. I don't have any Remington Arms Co. board notes to prove anything! However, as early as 1905-06 Remington Arms Co. was publishing separate catalogues that just covered their autoloaders and/or repeaters, while I've neaver seen or heard of a separate catalogue just for the doubles! On February 3, 1910, M. Hartley Company, the owner of both Remington Arms Co. and UMC sold out their entire stock of break action guns on hand and in process to Norvell-Shapleigh Hardware Co. of StLouis, Missouri. The 1910 Remington Arms Co. catalogue doesn't show any doubles.
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