doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Are these liberals you guys talking about?

Jack M., your point is understood and digested but the CEO system is even more separated economically from the workers than the plantation owner system was separated economically from the slaves. There is now a system of "no economically solvent worker class" in our country save professional craftsmen and the last generation of sub professional government employees. And, if you'll notice, it happened pretty fast. We all know how this situation is being rapidly accelerated, but that is another subject that, thankfully, is not being discussed on this thread.

I'm throwing in with Jack. (Also agree 100% with Jack Maloney that trashing liberals universally is worse than not helpful.)

Who told the high-flying philosophers which rights to include on their lists of natural rights? Who's the authority? Trying to find someone who can tell me which rights are natural God-given and which aren't leads into foggy dark places where I can't see if it's God or the devil who's talking.

What matters is whether or not we have the power to exercise our rights. If voting power shifts against and the Constitution is amended to repeal RKBA, the cultural norm would be a view of RKBA as an anachronism that no longer promotes the general welfare. Natural rights are a lovely idea, but absent divine intervention we better win the pragmatic argument about the general welfare in the 21st century.

Jay

Gunflint, you and Jack are from a state that elected a pro rassler as Gov. Says something about political acumen up there in Minnesota.:) Back when Ventura was your guy, our gov's wife got off a good shot: "If you want an encyclopedia torn in half, see the governor of Minnesota. If you want it read, see the governor of Iowa."

Seriously, there used to be some decent liberals--but note the past tense. Take a good look at the liberal wing of the Democratic Party and see if you can come up with some worthy examples. Not that there aren't good Dems, like the "blue dog" types recently elected that support gun rights. But they're not in the liberal wing.

The word liberal has been traditionally defined as 'broad minded,' 'tolerant of the views of others' and 'not bound by orthodoxy.' I have the greatest respect for true liberals.

The 'liberal wing' of the Democratic party, as delineated by chairman Howard Dean and loudly demonstrated by Cindy Sheehan, is anything but liberal. They are supremely intolerant of the views of others, and attack anyone - including prominent and lifelong Democrats - who deviates from a rigid and narrowly defined orthodoxy. Bad people hiding behind a good name doesn't make them good. Nor should it make that name bad.

I think I addressed the problem of the various uses of the term "liberal" in an earlier post. Jack's reference to "true liberals" is not in use today. A "true liberal" would not be in line with the Democratic Party design.

So then its ok to be a "liberal" (broad minded - not bound by orthodoxy etc.) but not a "Democrat" because the "new liberals" in "control of the party" are too left wing.
And, I guess the "conservatives" are not defined by the folks in power who take away Constitutional rights (like habeas corpus [the right to petition the court when thrown in jail]or the right to privacy and to be free from the government intercepting and reading/listening to all your communication)who also happen to be "Republicans?" Would that be the "extreme right wing" which is now "in control" of the Republican party?
At least the "liberal Democrats" apparently think that to take away Constituitional rights, it is necessary to have some legslative action and possibly even court review. What a wacky left wing concept that is.
RCC

Here is a link to what used to be Liberal, but since the term has been hijacked the new old term is Classical Liberal.

http://www.mises.org/etexts/classical.asp

Jefferson was an "old" liberal.

jack

Larry -

Former Gov. Jesse was in some ways an embarrassment, but he was sound on RKBA. Anyway, I don't begrudge an Iowayan's bragging about one of the state's most impressive accomplishments -- you deserve congratulations for not electing a former pro wrestler to be governor. After all, not every state can make that claim!

Jay

Jakearoo, of course, is correct, Democrats are not neccesarily liberals and Republicans are not neccesarily conservatives, and the sarcasm is not offensive. What I find offensive is the Democrats implying that they are "saving the world" by trashing gun rights and eliminating our right to teach our children personal responsibility. I see these two party platforms to be repugnant. If they gave up just those two, they would never lose another election in this country.