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#384555 11/17/14 09:24 PM
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Sidelock

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Anyone on here have an idea about the time frame a W. Greener with serial number 17xx might have been made. I'm thinking 1840s but that's just a guess.

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Best bet for the information will be to contact Graham Greener at W. W. Greener via email. He will give you a close estimate.


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Thanks Joe. Will do.

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According to Brown, Greener's have little or no information on guns prior to serial no 22860 from 1880.

Greener first started in Newcastle in 1829 before removing to Birmingham in 1844. He set up a London arm to his business in 1846.

What proof marks does the gun have?

Tim

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Hello Tim. No proof marks exist. The gun was converted by Lefever to a breach loader so any marks that were there were covered in that process.

I have an inquiry in to Graham so perhaps that can give a rough estimate.

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I have a William Greener hammer gun. Graham was totally mystified as to its provenance. Wonderful gun; I shoot it regularly.


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I can't find much on the W. Greener guns, not just records but any info. I'm curious about engraving levels on these. Anyone have pics to post or a reference that has info. Do his books have any info on his work. W.W. book The Gun and it's Development has the slightest bit, but I don't have any of the dads books.

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The Greener Story by Graham Greener has hundreds of pages of pictures and information.

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Have W Greener 14 ga #5812 converted by J Tonks-was told it was made @1850
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William Greener was the father of William Wellington Greener. In 1814 at the tender age of eight he was apprenticed to John Gardner on Newcastle. When finished with his apprenticeship he went to London and was fortunate enough to obtain work with John Manton & Son at 6 Dover Street but in 1829, having married his first wife Ann Thorne, he left Manton and returned to his native Newcastle where he set up business at 29 Collingwood Street and remained there until 1844. He died on the 23rd. of August, 1869. (this taken from "British Gunmakers" Vol 11 by Nigel Brown)


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As you might imagine, the IGC has considerable comment to make on the Greener family. So here it is:

Name William Greener
Address1 29 Collingwood Street
Address2 48 Groat Market
Address3 60 Pilgrim Street
City/Town Newcastle upon Tyne
County Northumberland
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun, rifle & pistol maker
Dates 1829-1844
Notes
William Greener was born in 1806 in Low Felling, County Durham, near Newcastle-upon-Tyne. His father was a toll gate keeper.
William was apprenticed in about 1820 to John Gardner at 130 Pilgrim Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. There are reports that when he finished his apprenticeship in about 1828, he moved to London to work for John Manton, and these are probably correct, but there are other reports that in 1822 he started an apprenticeship with John Manton. It is certain that he worked in London with John Manton, but probably only for about 12 months. In about 1828 he married Ann (nee Thorne born in Haydon, Dorset in 1811), and in 1829 he returned to Newcastle to open his own business at 29 Collingwood Street (premises occupied by W R Pape 1862-1902). In 1834 he moved to 48 Groat Market, and in 1835 he wrote his first book, "The Gun" or "A Treatise on the Various Descriptions of Small Fire-Arms". In this book he described himself as the "inventor of an improved method of firing cannon by percussion etc. etc.". The book was dedicated to the Duke of Wellington, and Peter Hawker wrote a testimonial which was printed in the book. In 1835/36 he invented the first bullet designed to expand in the barrel in order to seal the bore. This was one of the major leaps in rifle technology, and he offered it to the Government but, having done so, he could not patent the idea. However, the government awarded him £1000. His invention was finally rejected by the Board of Ordinance who adopted the Minie bullet for service use. In 1838 the firm moved to 60 Pilgrim Street, and in the 1841 census William and Ann were recorded living there with their children, Joseph (Henry) aged 9, William (Wellington) aged 7, Sarah (Ann?) aged 5, Mary (Elizabeth?) aged 3 and Ann (Anna Maria?) aged 1 day. William described himself as a gunsmith. In 1841 William Greener wrote "The Science of Gunnery". By 1844 Greener realised that his success was limited by his location, the English gun trade was dominated by Birmingham makers, so in that year he moved the business to Rifle Hill, Aston New Town, Birmingham where, supplies, craftsmen and markets for his guns existed.

For the remainder of the Greener history see William Greener of Birmingham below.

Name William Greener
Other Names W W Greener; W W Greener Ltd
Address1 Rifle Hill, Aston New Town
Address2 St Mary's Works, 61-62 Loveday Street, St Mary's Square
Address3 Prize Works, St Mary's Square
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun, rifle & pistol maker
Other Address Hull Addresses: 27 Silver Street; 19 Paragon Street; 8 Trinity House Lane.
Birmingham addresses: The Tower, Bagot Street; Garrison Lane.
London addresses: 25 Gerrard Street, Soho; 1 Ely Place, Holborn; 68 Haymarket; 29 Pall Mall; 40 Pall Mall.
Ludlow address: Bull Ring.
Foreign addresses: 8 Avenue de l'Opera, Paris; 38 Bolshaya Morskaya, St Petersburg; 176 Broadway, New York. Montreal, Canada.
Dates 1829-1967
Notes
He started in business with three men the rest of his work being put out to the trade. At this early stage he started to consider opening a shop in London. London has always had a reputation for "Best" guns, mainly because it had a large number of affluent customers, but rents and wages were expensive. In 1846, Greener opened a shop in London at 25 Gerrard Street, Soho. In addition to his books, William Greener wrote a number of pamphlets on various subjects. Perhaps the most notable of these was the 1845 pamphlet entitled "The Proof House, the Bane of the Gun Trade". This became part of the campaign which resulted in changes embodied in the Gun Barrel Proof Act in 1855. In 1848 the firm gained an appointment to H R H Prince Albert, this put the firm at the forefront of British gun making. In the 1851 census William and Ann were recorded living in Walsall Road, Aston. By this time Joseph Henry was 18 years old and William was 16 years old; both were described as gun makers but obviously apprentice gun makers. Sarah was not recorded at home in this census and daughter, Ann, was named as Anna Maria. Two further sons had been born, Albert John in 1846 and Arthur in 1851. In 1851 William exhibited at the Great Exhibition, and Greener guns, barrels and harpoon guns were awarded prizes. Without doubt, the exhibition helped the firm's reputation and the export market the firm had developed. William and his sons would have seen the new French breech loading guns at the exhibition but, as will be seen below, William's opinion of them differed from those of his sons.

In 1852 the London shop moved to 1 Ely Place, Holborn. In 1853 Greener guns were awarded prizes at the New York Exhibition, and in 1855 at the Paris Exhibition. In 1856 the London shop was closed, probably because it was relatively expensive to maintain and most customers placed their orders direct with the Birmingham factory. Instead, a London agent, Daniel B Harvey of 42 Ely Place, was appointed and he took over responsibility for orders, which were probably mainly for export, but his agency was terminated in 1859. On 21 December 1854 William Greener registered patent No. 2693 for a revolver and breech-loader both with an under-lever operated reciprocating barrel, and the combustible alloy cartridges to use in them. James Purdey is generally credited with making the first true "Express" rifle in 1851, although he named them and frequently made them much later. This was a long range rifle with a light bullet and a heavy powder charge (see James Purdey). Later in the century, W W Greener claimed to have been the first gun maker to have made, in 1855, an "Express" type rifle. This he called his "Cape Rifle" (not to be confused with the later guns of the same name which had one shotgun barrel and one rifled barrel). The Greener "Cape Rifle" had a two groove barrel with a one in thirty inch twist and a winged bullet. However, in 1832 a Major David Davidson of the Bombay Army had developed an Express type rifle, and a few years later he developed telescopic sights to be used with both rifles and pistols (see David Davidson of Haddington). As mentioned above, William was not impressed with the new breech-loading guns and was not prepared to jeopardise what he saw as a secure and profitable future for his firm by the adoption of new and unproved ideas. His sons, William Wellington in particular, believed that breech loaders would supersede muzzle loaders. Reportedly, this was an irreconcilable difference of opinion but it does not appear to have caused a break-up in the family because in the 1861 census (see below) William Wellington was still living at home. In 1855, and probably with financial help from his father, William Wellington Greener established his own business. This was known as W Greener Jnr and the address was given as C/O Bayliss & Son (precise address unknown). At the same time or very shortly afterwards, he and Joseph also became partners in the firm of W & J Greener. It would appear that William Wellington Greener established a breech loading barrel making firm with the Bayliss family as his main suppliers, and a gun making partnership with his brother, Joseph. The Bayliss family were a very large family, most of them being barrel makers. In 1858 William Greener wrote his third book, "Gunnery".

In 1859 William Greener's wife, Ann died. In the 1861 census William was recorded living at 23 Walsall Road with William Wellington, Albert (aged 15 a gun stocker), Arthur (aged 10), and Sarah Ann and Mary E, both of whom were teachers. The firm of W Greener Jnr was recorded in Lench Street from 1858 to 1863, but in 1863 the name changed to W W Greener and he moved to 61-62 Loveday Street, the premises being named the "St Mary's Works". On 10 September 1863 W W Greener patented a sliding bolt single bite snap action breech-loader (No. 2231). In this patent the operating lever fitted round the trigger guard or was itself the trigger guard. This moved a round bolt back and forth in the top of the head of the stock but it made no provision to lock the barrels to the action face. The patent also covered an extractor for pin-fire guns which comprised a lever and slide on top of the barrels which moved to the rear as the gun was opened and extracted the cartridges. On 24 September 1864, William Greener registered patent No. 2349 for chambered barrels in which the chamber was used only for powder and wadding. William Greener may have registered only two gun patents, but he also improved the Davy mining lamp, invented a self-righting lifeboat and a level-crossing gate mechanism, and he invented an electric light. On 7 May 1867 W W Greener registered patent No 1339 for a top lever locking mechanism. This patent mentions a cross-bolt through an extension of the top rib, this eventually became his treble wedge fast grip. On 7 March 1868 he registered patent No 800, this covered a retracting striker design which had a hook on the breast of the hammer which caught the firing pin, which had a lateral projection and a groove to guide it, and on cocking pulled it back. The patent also covered barrels hinged at the side.

Albert Greener, a 15 year old stocker in the 1861 census reportedly went to San Francisco in about 1868 and was never heard of again, but guns bearing his name have been seen. Some of these guns may be genuine and may have been made in Birmingham before he left but others, certainly those traceable to Liege, are highly likely to be forgeries. In 1867 Joseph Henry Greener was recorded running his own business as a gun and rifle maker at 35 Loveday Street, this appears to have closed in 1869, no doubt because in that year William Greener died. On 7 May 1867 W W Greener registered patent No. 1339 for a locking bolt for breech action guns. W W Greener was left out of his father's will. There could be a number of reasons for this apart from him already having received his inheritance in the form of finance for his own venture. These other reasons may have included W W Greener leaving his father in 1855 and starting his own business and, perhaps, the influence he may have had over his elder brother, Joseph Henry, joining him in leaving his father's firm. However, W W Greener, aged 26, was still living with his father in 1861, so it is unlikely that his father's disapproval was connected with these other reasons. It has been suggested that the main reason was because William Greener did not approve of W W Greener's wife, Emma (nee Oliver b.1834 in Northumberland and married to W W Greener in 1862), and while this could have been a reason it is unlikely to have been the main one. Reportedly, after his father's death W W Greener bought his father's business from the rest of the family, but this does not appear to be correct because his brother, Joseph Henry, closed his business but remained a gun maker, the remaining brother living in England, Arthur E Greener, was recorded as a gun maker in the 1901 census and, as he did not have his own business must have remained employed in the family firm. In any event, the works at Aston were reportedly closed and all the machinery and stock were moved to W W Greener's factory at 61-62 Loveday Street. This had now expanded to St Mary's Square and St Mary's Row, and it was known as St Mary's Works.

In the 1871 census W W Greener and Emma were recorded living in Grange Lane, Erdington, a village on the north western outskirts of Birmingham. They had four sons, William O (Oliver)(b.1862 in Aston), Harry (b.1864 in Aston), Charles Edward (b.1867 in Erdington), and Frederick (b.1969 in Erdington, and a daughter, Mary (b.1870 in Erdington). In 1871 W W Greener wrote "The Modern Breech Loader". On 19 September 1873 he patented the famous Greener Treble Wedge Fast cross bolt for drop-down and side-opening breech actions (No. 3084). This was an improvement on his patent No. 1339/1867. It employed the Henry Jones under-lever which had a link to a vertical spindle behind the standing breech which moved the cross bolt in and out of the extended top rib. The side-opening shotgun was effectively the first English over / under variation of the side by side shotgun. Patent No. 3090 of 9 September 1874 covered improvements to it. In 1874 W W Greener acquired the business of Joseph Needham and gained the rights to the Needham ejector patent, he patented improvements to it. For some years Greener used the Needham name to market less expensive guns. In 1876 W W Greener wrote "Choke Bore Guns and How to Load for All Kinds of Game". He claimed to be the inventor of choke boring, as did W R Pape of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, but neither Pape nor Greener actually "invented" choke boring. They both perfected it and proved its worth, and W W Greener more than anyone else, popularised it, but the idea had been fairly common knowledge throughout the gunmaking world since the late 17th century. In 1875 The Field magazine had organised trials of choked and non-choked guns. These trials proved that choke boring threw tighter patterns at longer ranges. On 21 July 1876 a further trial took place at the Notting Hill Gun Club. This trial was won by cylinder bored guns but it was criticised as worthless and not a true test, because the cylinder bored guns used "concentrators" (paper or wire mesh shot containers) which threw a pattern equivalent to guns bored with half choke. In 1877 a further trial was organised and concentrators were banned. James Purdey put up a 50 guinea silver cup. The choke bore proved to be the winner. On 25 April 1877 patent No. 1623 by W W Greener covered a breech action opening cocking mechanism operated by a barrel bolt, also covered was the famous Greener side safety.

In 1878 the firm re-opened a shop and office in London taking over the firm and premises of Theophilus Murcott at 68 Haymarket. They also opened a shop in Paris at 8 Avenue de l'Opera. A 14 bore double barrelled pin-fire rotary-underlever sporting gun engraved H Greener, London, has been seen. On the 25 February 1879 W W Greener registered patent No. 769. This covered a safety bolt which blocked the striker holes (this referred to 3084/1873 and 1623/1877). On 2 March 1880 patent No. 930 by W W Greener covered the Greener "Facile Princeps" (easily the first) barrel cocking hammerless box lock action. Greener was one of the many gun makers who had been licensed to use the Westley Richards / Anson and Deeley boxlock patent for which they paid 15 shillings per gun, but they had another idea which entailed a sliding rod or hook on the barrel lump which cocked the locks of the Facile Princeps. Westley Richards sued for infringement of their patent and the case went to appeal at the House of Lords. Westley Richards lost the case on the grounds that the Greener patent was different in that their gun could be cocked without the fore-end attached. On 9 May 1881 W W Greener registered patent No. 2003 for a self-acting ejector (referred to 1205/1874, 930/1880 and 1927 /1877) also a cocking mechanism for a breech action, a butt plate safety, an over/under vertical sliding breech block, and a punt gun action. In 1881 W W Greener wrote "The Gun and Its Development" which went on to nine editions and reprints in the period up to 1910. By this time he was living at "The Cedars", Grange Lane, Aston, and was recorded in the 1881 census. Harry was recorded as Henry (Leyton) Greener and was an apprentice gun finisher, Charles Edward and the others were still attending school, but also recorded were Arthur W (b.1873), Ellen G (Helen?) (b.1874) and Winifred E (b.1876). William Oliver Greener, now aged 19 years) was also recorded in the census but he was living in another property in Grange Lane owned by Henry Oliver, a retired dairy farmer aged 71 who lived there with his wife, Mary aged 68. William Oliver was described as a journeyman gun maker.

On 21 September 1882 W W Greener registered patent No. 4516 for a mainspring safety device and methods of constructing twist barrels from tube. By 1884 the Greener factory had expanded, the main entrance to the factory was changed to St Mary's Square and, because the firm had won a number of prizes, the address of the firm changed to Prize Works, St Mary's Square. In 1884 Joseph Henry Greener died. On 19 May 1885 Harry Greener patented a windage adjustable Vernier rifle sight (No. 6090). In 1888 W W Greener wrote "Modern Shotguns", and in 1892, "The Breech Loader and how to use it". In 1888 Braendlin Armoury Co was put into voluntary liquidation, but W W Greener bought the company and continued to trade under the name Braendlin Armoury Co. Charles Edward Greener ran it until about 1911. On 29 January 1889 Harry Greener patented an ejector mechanism with a two part tumbler (No. 1567). This was his "Unique Ejector".

On 7 November 1889 W W Greener took out patent No. 17746 for a barrel which was shallow rifled except at the muzzle which was recess-choked. The idea was to make a gun to rival Holland & Holland's Paradox which could fire shot and ball. It was not a success because it did not pattern well. In about 1890 the firm opened branches in a number of countries. There were showrooms at 38 Bolshaya Morskaya, St Petersburg, Russia; 176 Broadway, New York, USA; and in Montreal, Canada (managed by Charles Humphrey Greener). At some later date the firm appointed Henry C Squires & Son of 20 Cortland Street, New York, their sole agents in the USA. On 14 February 1891 Harry Greener patented a coil spring opening cocking mechanism for a breech action (No. 2697).
In the 1891 census the Greener family were still living in Grange Lane but the name of the house was not recorded. Arthur William was described as an 18 year old gun maker's apprentice. W W Greener's father-in-law and neighbour, Henry Oliver, now a widower aged 81, and his son and W W Greener's nephew, Howard (b.1872 in Birmingham and described as a private secretary - to W W Greener?), were both living with the family. Interestingly, visitors in the house on the night of the census were Louisa M Rawbone (b.1860 in Southampton) and her son (?) Cyril E Rawbone (b.1881 in Cape Botony (?)). The Rawbone family were gun makers in Cape Town, South Africa from about 1848 to about 1937 (it is unclear whether the reference to "Cape, Botony" refers to Cape Town where there may have been a place named Botony or to Botany (Bay?), Sydney, Australia). In the same census, William Oliver Greener was recorded as a visitor in the home of William H Bull, a commission agent, who lived at Chigwell Cottage, Lavender Hill, Enfield. William, aged 29, was described as an author and journalist, not a gun maker; he was accompanied by his wife, Florence M (b.1863 in Birmingham, and their daughter, Florence G (b.1889 in Harborne, Staffordshire). In the same census Charles Edward Greener was recorded living in Chester Road, Erdington with his wife, Harriet (b.1867 in Leysters, Hereford) and their son, Humphrey (b.1891).

In 1892 the firm started to make bicycles. On 4 October 1893 W W Greener patented an opening cocking mechanism and an ejector mechanism and an intercepting safety together with a stock bolt (patent No. 18558). On 4 January 1895 W W Greener registered patent No. 228 for a circular cross bolt. In 1895 the London office had moved to 13-14 Abchurch Lane, it closed in about 1900. The firm was last recorded in 1925. Also in 1895 W W Greener bought the business of William Stevenson Needler at 27 Silver Street, Hull, but it continued to trade under the name of W S Needler. Needler had been a competitor in the manufacture of harpoon guns, and buying Needler's business gave Greener direct local contact with whaling ships sailing in and out of Hull. In 1900 the business moved to 19 Paragon Street, and in 1912 it moved to 8 Trinity House Lane, it closed in about 1914. On 30 September 1896 Harry Greener registered patent No. 21622 for an intercepting safety sear for a boxlock action. On 10 November 1897 Frederick Greener registered patent No. 26147 for an inspection port, loaded indicator and safety device for Martini actions. On 19 February 1898 Harry Greener patented a single trigger mechanism for breech actions (No 4156); on 15 April 1899 he patented another (No. 7930). On 22 February 1900 he patented a rifle sight with a drift compensation adjustment (No. 3477).
In 1900 W W Greener wrote "Sharpshooting for Sport and War".

In the 1901 census W W Greener and Emma were recorded at their Welsh holiday home, Tyr Graig, in Llanaber, near Barmouth, Merionethshire. In the same census W W Greener's former home, "The Cedars" in Grange Lane, was occupied by Harry Greener and his sisters, Helen G and Winifred E, both unmarried. Harry was described as a gun maker. Arthur W Greener was recorded as a 28 year old gun maker living at a house named Moelfre (?) in Sutton Coldfield, about 8 miles north west of Erdington. Living with him was his wife, Ada (b.1874 in Erdington), no children were recorded. Charles Edward Greener was recorded as a 34 year old gun maker living at Strelna, in Chester Road, Erdington, with Harriet and Humphrey and three other children, Leysters (b.1894), Chloris (b.1896) and Jessie (b.1899). On 8 May 1902 Harry Greener patented another rifle sight with lateral adjustment (No. 10555). On 29 April 1903 Harry Greener registered patent No. 9644 for an airgun or air rifle cocked by breaking the barrel. In 1903 Emma Greener died at the holiday home in Wales. On 26 February 1904 Frederick Greener registered patent No. 4729 for an adapter and bolt to convert .303 service rifles for practice with small calibre ammunition. On 7 December 1905 he patented a bolt action safety (No. 25448), and on 8 December a fore-end hand guard with projections that enabled approximate sighting (patent No. 25551). On 26 April 1906 Harry Greener registered patent No. 9748 for a single trigger (referred to 4156/1898). On 19 January 1907 Frederick Greener registered patent No. 1422 for an off-set barrel conversion which allowed centrefire rifles to fire rimfire ammunition.

In 1907 W W Greener and Charles Edward Greener published a book entitled "The Causes of Decay in a British Industry" under the pseudonyms Optifex and Artifex. In 1908 W W Greener wrote "The British Miniature Rifle". On 12 October 1908 Harry Greener registered patent No. 21516 for improvements to Lyman and Orthoptic disc sights. On 19 July 1909 Frederick Greener registered patent No. 16776 for a pivoted folding aperture sight. On 11 May 1910 Harry Greener patented his "Empire" model opening cocking hinge pin mechanism (patent No. 12012). On 14 May 1910 he filed his patent for a dovetailed barrel lump which slid in longitudinally from the front and incorporated a top key (patent No. 3569). W W Greener retired in 1911 and Harry Leyton Greener (aged 47) and Charles Edward Greener (aged 44) took over the business although Frederick and Arthur William were still partners. At this time the company registered an elephant's head as a trade mark, this reason for this was because Charles Greener was called in by police to shoot a escaped elephant outside Charing Cross Station. On 27 February 1914 Harry Greener registered patent No. 5090 for a sear and intercepting sear in a sidelock which were independently located; on 3 March he registered patent No. 5391 to convert a large calibre rifle for use with small calibre ammunition; and on 14 March 1914 patent No. 6491 covered a safety for humane killers. By 1914 the firm claimed that their factory was the largest in the UK, it occupied 37,000 square feet. It was in 1914 that W W Greener published his last book, "Sharpshooting for War and Defense".

From the start of the First World War the company was involved in munitions production, and the manufacture of sporting guns ceased. In December 1914 they opened a separate factory at The Tower, Bagot Street, to make Belgian type Mauser actioned rifles and bayonets. These premises were formerly an old government factory (National Rifle Factory no. 2) which had been closed for several years. In 1916 a further 3 1/2 acre factory site was acquired in Garrison Lane to make other munitions, machine gun parts, signal pistols, SMLE rifles, bomb release mechanisms and naval gun barrels. The firm of B H Pottier & Co was taken over, they manufactured bayonets for the short Lee Enfield rifles. From 1916 to 1928 the London showroom was at 29 Pall Mall. In 1920 the firm became a limited liability company and the name changed to W W Greener Ltd. From 1920 to 1930 the company had a shop at Bull Ring, Ludlow, Shropshire. The purpose of this is unknown, perhaps it was just a shop that one of the family managed as a sideline. On 24 March 1921 Harry Greener patented an automatic rotating safety for a Martini action (No. 181154). On 19 August 1921 he patented a detachable fore-end that gave additional heat protection (No. 187078). The Greener Martini action was used by the company in their GP shotguns from 1922 to 1998, their EG shotguns (Egyptian Ghaffir Police Force) from 1922 to 1938, their Police model shotguns from 1922 to 1967. It was used in rifled actions from the late 1960s to 1967. On 25 July 1921 W W Greener died in Erdington, aged 86. He was buried, presumably beside his wife, in Llanaber.

On 10 June 1922 Harry Greener patented an adaption to the Martini action so that large bore shotgun cartridges could be used (patent No. 203412). In 1923 the company claimed that not only was their factory the largest in the UK, it was the largest sporting gun factory in the world. From 1928 to 1965 the showroom in London was located at 40 Pall Mall. In 1929 Harry Leyton Greener died, he left a wife, Anne Elizabeth (nee Pearson) and a son, also named Harry Leyton Greener (Harry (II) b.1903). During the Second World War the company renovated and repaired First World War P14 and P17 rifles, they also made Verey signalling pistols, fuse pistols, Sten gun silencers, and aeroplane parts. After the war there was a shortage of materials for gun making, only Empire and GP guns could be made, and the company turned to manufacturing parts for the motor industry.

Charles Edward Greener died in 1951, he had run virtually all the "business side" of the company, and Harry (II) took over from him with Humphrey looking after the manufacturing side. In 1965 the company was sold to Webley & Scott Ltd. The Pall Mall showroom closed and William Kempster, the manager, left to open his own business in Lambs Conduit Street. In 1973 Webley & Scott were taken over by the Harris & Sheldon Group Ltd. Webley & Scott continued to make a few Greener guns up to 1979, but after that date the name was not used. The total production Greener guns from 1829 to 1979 had been about 75,000. In 1985 rights to the W W Greener Ltd name (also J V Needham and T Murcott) were acquired by Graham Greener, David Dryhurst and Ken Richardson who re-established W W Greener at 1 Belmont Row, Birmingham. The company now trades as W W Greener (Sporting Guns) Ltd; the administrative offices are at Stoppers Hill, Brinkworth, Chippenham, Wiltshire SN15 5AW; Tel +44 (0) 1666 510351 (see current gun suppliers on this web site). In 1994 the company opened a workshop at Barnt Green, Worcestershire. Richard Tandy recently joined the Board of Directors.
Other Info
The firm sold cartridges under the names "Empire" (poat 1927) "Paragon", "Sporting Life" (post 1910 and 1920), Dead Shot" (post 1910), "Dwarf" (2 inch post 1910) "Greener Brass" (post 1927) and "Police Gun E-K".

Tim

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