doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com nice custom rifle on gunbroker

David,
It does seem his measurements are out of sinc.,he shows a throat dia much smaller than groove dia. From the land dia., I suspect it is some 8mm.
What is the other rifle of unknown chambering?
Mike

I'm told that that cerrosafe casting compound changes measurements, too, after it sits cold for a while. I thought that might be why my own measurements were different from the gunsmith's.

The other rifle needing casting is the Neidner-Sukalle (discused above) which I bought on Gun Broker, and which has not yet arrived.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=450133917

Many early smokeless barrels, especially Austrian, were rifled with deep grooves. This is most common with military rifles, but also shows up in some early sporters. Peterlongo made a 9x71R with a bullet diameter of about .350".

Any proofmarks?

Cerrosafe shrinks right after the casting. It then grows at a specific rate and one hour after the cast it is at the actual size of the chamber.

My FFL guy tells me that Niedner-Sukalle Mauser arrived safely this afternoon. (I have not seen it yet.)

He says that it is a large-ring Mauser 98 with matching numbers except for the bolt shroud. Oddly enough, the serial number ends in 00.

The seller included two empty brass cartridge cases. One in .257 Roberts will not chamber. The other is a .300 Savage without a neck which will chamber.

I'm having the chamber cast right away.

Beginning to sound like a .250-3000.

I went over and picked up the Niedner-Sukalle today. I have the chamber cast. I will measure it and report later.

The gunsmith reports that the barrel interior is in fine condition.

This rifle has mounts for a long, target, Unertl or Fecker-style telescopic sight. The barrel is very heavy. This rifle was clearly built and set up as a Varminter or Target Rifle.Sukalle's name must be on the underside, concealed by the stock. It is marked

AO NEIDNER
DOWAGIAC MICH

on the barrel on top.

The German manufacturer has been obscured by stippling, but the serial number 8300 appears in several places.

My local gunsmith, the FFL dealer, thinks it must be the original pre-Remington .257 Roberts wildcat cartridge.

He has the appropriate reamer, and has suggested that I simply have him modify the chambering very slightly to make it a .257 Ackeley Improved. I am wondering if that would really seriously impact the originality of Bill Sukalle's work.

One thing for sure. I just read an article on Sukalle's barrel-making in the 1962 Gun Digest. He apparently proofed the heck out of his barrels. So there can be no doubt that this rifle would handle .257 Roberts +P loads or .257 Ackeley Improved loads no problem.

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One other thing. The seller passed along a letter to him from the previous owner.

That letter says the rifle belonged to the seller's grandfather
who died in 1977. It claims that this grandfather bought the rifle in 1942(!) and also made the rifle's stock himself.

I have never seen or handled a Neidner in person, so I cannot be sure, but the stock does not look to me like the work of an amateur gunsmith. It is not as high a quality as a Griffin & Howe, but it is a very nice piece of walnut (I think American) and is well-checkered.

A 1942 date makes no sense. Neidner retied in 1940, and nobody would be building rifles in the early wildcat .257 round after 1934. Also Sukalle moved to Phoenix in 1935, and this barrel is marked with his Tucson address.

The AI version looks cooler than it is in practice. A smidge more velocity with attendant increase in point blank range of a few extra yards. Biggest boon is the lessened case stretching, but since most AI addicts by nature are pushing the envelope anyway, that is a moot point. Been there, done that 25 years ago, ain't going back. The cost of special order AI dies further offsets what little improvement one gets. It could also hurt resale value down the line, too. (Given the choice between equal rifles with "normal" and AI chambers of the same cartridge, I'll take the normal one every time.)

Plus if Mr. Niedner cut that chamber, it would be a shame to muck with it.

Rear sight is a Lyman 48. Front sight is a Lyman 17 Globe Target. The buttplate and pistol grip cap are actually horn. (I was thinking plastic yesterday, but there is a little bit of insect nibbling on the bottom edge of the butt plate.)

I'm looking at the casting. It sure looks to me exactly like the picture of a .257 Roberts in Richard Lee's Modern Handloading. I'm going to see if I can pick up a box of .257 Roberts tomorrow and see if one chambers for me.

I can't find my calipers, but I have one coming from Amazon.

I have been comparing the lines of the stock and the checkering pattern with photos of Neidner rifles in Michael Petrov's books and in the upcoming Amoskeag auction of Michael Petrov's collection. The Neidner-Sukalle I just bought has the typical lines and checkering pattern characteristic of Neidner's work. I'm persuaded that it was done by Neidner.

The sling swivels are missing. They seem to have been the same swivels found on this rifle in the Amoskeag auction: Custom A O Niedner Model 1924 Proprietary Action B - by Amoskeag Auction Co - http://is.gd/Xbd08p

Can anyone recognize the make & model of the swivels?

The picture is much clearer in the actual catalog.