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Originally Posted By: Run With The Fox
I have a 80% condition- using the Fjestad Blue Book guidelines- 1927 Meridan mfg. Parker Trojan- 12 gauge 28" barrels- so just for the hell of it- I went to my copy of the Blue Book and checked out the following: page 771 Fox Sterlingworth in 80% at $875, an Ithaca NID at $500, an L.C. Smith post-1913 Field Grade at $1200 and the Parker Trojan at $3000- Any comments? "What's in a name?" Parker Brothers, Rolls-Royce, Rolex, Steinway, Mercedes-Benz, and the list goes on!!


The blue book prices on Parker Trojans and VH grade Parkers are pretty off base I think as well. With the exception of very high condition guns. Since 98% or better guns are very rare, people will pay. But 80% condition guns or even 50% for that matter will never bring on the current market what the blue book states due to just too many being out there. Even PH or GH Damascus guns are. Dry common and hard to get anywhere blue book prices. Fluid steel is closer to blue book prices in these grades due to the fact they are less seen for sale.


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the blue book is old news the day it is published. the pricing data is at least a year old. the real value of the blue book is the technical data and specifications it contains. and as the publisher points out, it is only a guide to firearms values.

if you want real time values, do an advanced search on gunbroker and gunauction for auctions completed in the last 90 days. that will give you much more current valuations than any printed matter. in addition, many live and on line auction companies publish sold for values on their web sites. amoskeag, julia and rock island are among the most comprehensive.


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Originally Posted By: ed good
the blue book is old news the day it is published. the pricing data is at least a year old. the real value of the blue book is the technical data and specifications it contains. and as the publisher points out, it is only a guide to firearms values.

if you want real time values, do an advanced search on gunbroker and gunauction for auctions completed in the last 90 days. that will give you much more current valuations than any printed matter. in addition, many live and on line auction companies publish sold for values on their web sites. amoskeag, julia and rock island are among the most comprehensive.
Maybe so Ed- but if the Fjestad Blue Book is "Old News"- why are they into their 35th continuous year of publication then- and also, why does Dave our host, feature the 33rd Edition with NRS head Fred Wayne LaPierre's mug shot on the cover- are you saying our Host doesn't believe in it- I do, and so do the gun library guys at Cabela's- at least as a set of co-ordinates for appraisals--


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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"the real value of the blue book is the technical data and specifications it contains. and as the publisher points out, it is only a guide to firearms values."


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Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
I paid $800 for my $500 12ga. Sterlingworth a number of years ago when people like me had money to spend.

Since it's now so worthless, certainly the modification police will no longer mind that the #2 30" barrels now have 2 3/4" chambers, the cones are 4" long, and the chokes are now .005 and .015. Mr. Danner rust blued the barrels and they look like new. The project is stuck at the stock refinishing stage, due to lack of ambition and/or funds. It works just fine as is.

I spent today shooting the 7.25 pound overweight pig at skeet and trap just to see if it's as big a POS as some of you folks seem to think it is.

My 7/8oz. load of #9 at 1120 fps only netted me a 95/100 at skeet. I do cheat and use an X wad in the left barrel. The 1oz. load of #9 from the right barrel scored 23/25 at singles trap. I chipped a few, and I did miss two.... but the others blew up like a chinese firework. 1oz. #9 through .005". Apparently, the hard shot and long cones work for this application.

The kids enjoyed seeing the 1926 model Fox do it's thing. I rather enjoyed the day. It's not a competition target gun, but it sure is fun to shoot. I did drop a few pheasants with it back when I first acquired it.

So, is it 'worth' the near $1300 I foolishly have 'into' it? I'm past the point of caring. I prefer now to just enjoy the day, and I have as much fun with a Benelli, an 1100, or a Krieghoff. They all have something to offer and I enjoy still being able to shoot anything off the rack reasonably well.

There will come a time when we can't. All of us. Just enjoy your guns now and forget all the financial and political and demographic crap. In the final analysis, it's only the day shooting that counts.


Hear, hear!


The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
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I'm 44 and started getting into LC's in 2007 or so. In the beginning, I shopped a long, long time for a decent 12g budget shooter and gave $550. Same gun today is probably $350 or less on a "no reserve" GB auction.

On the plus side, I've picked up several small bore guns I couldn't have afforded in the beginning. All came from estates of guys that just passed. They were "one family" guns, but reached the end of the line. Sad really..to me anyway.

What worries me more than anything is that the guns will reach a low point where it pays to take them apart and sell the pieces on ebay. Parts still bring good money.

In my opinion, except for the high grades and high condition examples, prices will continue to fall.

On a side note...I reload hunting shells, including steel (which can easily be loaded under 9k). Because steel wads have come such a long ways in the last decade, I wish someone like Sherman Bell would hand load some low pressure steel shells and open up the chokes on an old gun and do some real research on the results. I believe the right steel load could be utilized in the right gun w/absolutely no long term issues. A modern study like this could go a long way to making our old guns worth something to the next generations.

Last edited by Phunter; 11/03/14 11:58 AM.
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with regard to shooting steel shot in old guns...

it is my understanding that the steel used for most shotgun barrels made prior to the mid eighties is too soft for use with steel shot. seems like the worry is that the harder steel shot will score the bore. have seen too many old guns with scored bores...have improved wads now eliminated that problem?

Last edited by ed good; 11/03/14 03:19 PM.

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as to field grade 12 gauge double guns being disassembled for parts...

given that the market for assembled guns is declining, i dont see a market developing for their parts.

besides, putting together a double gun from parts from other guns is a hit and miss thing; requiring considerable gunsmith skills and lots of luck.

if there is no demand for a gun, then why go thru the effort and expense of creating one?


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Originally Posted By: ed good
with regard to shooting steel shot in old guns...

it is my understanding that the steel used for most shotgun barrels made prior to the mid eighties is too soft for use with steel shot. seems like the worry is that the harder steel shot will score the bore. have seen too many old guns with scored bores...have improved wads now eliminated that problem?


I'm forced to use steel for much of my upland hunting. My experience is w/loading Steel Powder, SAM1 wads, 1 oz steel, #4 shot, 11.5k, in the 1550-1600 fps range in modern shotguns. None of the recovered tapered wads had any break through or pin holes from the shot. None..and I've looked at lots of them including spent wads from factory shells. With a sensible and reduced load, I would suspect this would remove all practical risk of pin holed wads and scratched bores. So, that leaves pressure, choke constriction, forcing cones, short chambers, and possible bridging of larger shot as the only remaining enemies. All of which could be corrected by a gunsmith and proper reloading.

I bought a $300 beater LC to test out my theory. But, It turned out to be a really nice gun and I haven't had the heart to mess it up.

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that is the problem with destructive testing...it is potentially destructive...

as the use of lead shot becomes more and more of an issue, maybe an ammo maker such as rst or polywad will do the testing and load development that will make steel shot a viable alernative for use in most old guns...however, not all old guns have the same barrel steel. what might work in older or field grade smiths might not be suitable for newer or graded smiths, which were made with different barrel steels...and the same applies for other brands as well...

reminds me of the problems some have encountered when reharding shotgun receivers. not all receivers were made from the same alloy, even within the same brand. and when you try to reharden a receiver of brand b, by using the technique that worked on brand a, then you are really getting into dangerous waters, where "there may be dragons", so to speak.


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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