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Since this post is meandering anyway I will throw in my two cents (worth every penny). I may have ordered a gun "bespoke" if the wait time wasn't one year plus. That is if you actually get what you ordered in the end.

I can't understand why none of the larger importers don't order a certain number of guns which can be quickly altered to fit as a "semi-custom" gun. Order the guns full and full and bore the chokes to customer preference. Order the stocks long and without a pad installed or the butt checkered. Have them cut, the butt checkered or a pad installed and bent to customer specifications. Don't look at it as a way to up the price, just charge enough to cover the work and deliver a gun in weeks instead of months (or years).

The Ugartecheas at Lion Country Supply are a great example. It seems to me they carry a decent inventory, but every gun is the same. Same barrel length, same chokes, same stock dimensions. It is true I could just buy what they sell and modify it to fit me, but you can't make a short stock longer (I am 6'4") and you can't make a loose choke tighter.

CHAZ



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Originally Posted By: Rocketman
I have shopped Spanish guns since reading (and re-reading and re-re-reading, etc.) MM’s “Spanish Best.”


If I'm not mistaken Terry Wieland authored the book "Spanish Best". smile


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great input guys, this is really helpfull



John
Quality Arms


Thanks so much!1


John Boyd
Quality Arms Inc
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Originally Posted By: J.R.B.
Originally Posted By: Rocketman
I have shopped Spanish guns since reading (and re-reading and re-re-reading, etc.) MM’s “Spanish Best.”


If I'm not mistaken Terry Wieland authored the book "Spanish Best". smile


sick blush

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One additional thought. Spanish guns seem to have put on some weight in the last couple of years. 28 gauge guns used to run around 5 pounds 10 ounces to 5 pounds 13 ounces. Today you have to look hard to find one under about 6 pounds 2 ounces to 6 pounds 4 ounces. (I focus on the 28 gauge because that's what I was looking to purchase.) It seems true for 16s, which are approaching the standard British 12 gauge game gun weight of 6 pounds 12 ounces. The 12s are now running up to 7-1/4 pounds. I'm sure some of this results from strengthening the guns to handle the higher pressure of American factory loads, but if you're marketing to a traditional game gun buyer, that matters as well.

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The 2009 AyA 4/53 (20 gauge) I just got (with a 15" stock) is 5 pounds 14 ounces empty. That would put it right at the "rule of 96" for a 1 ounce load.
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Spanish guns might be a bit heavier in that their barrels are mostly new and comparable English guns will likely have had their barrels polished out several times over a gun's useful lifespan. Certainly, guns made for heavy loads (and use) will weigh a bit more, but most of the Spanish guns I've owned or looked at were right on the money for weight, with 12s ranging from 6 1/2 to 6 3/4 lbs for a standard game gun (28-inch tubes, 15-inch LOP). The few 2-inch guns I've handled were a bit heavier than their English counterparts, and that is clearly because of wall thickness differences (not as many attorneys in the 1930s I guess)._

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Originally Posted By: Hoof

--- snip ---
I can't understand why none of the larger importers don't order a certain number of guns which can be quickly altered to fit as a "semi-custom" gun. Order the guns full and full and bore the chokes to customer preference. Order the stocks long and without a pad installed or the butt checkered.
--- snip ---


Alas, not happening. The stock LOP and chokes are the least of it.

How about DAC, DAH, cast and pitch? And rebalancing the gun when the stock is cut shorter?

And the guys who want thirty inch barrels, twenty-five inch barrels, or something in the middle. Then there are the folks who want a Churchill rib, or a Woodcock rib, or a swamped, concave rib, or some other damn thing. And the people who want extractors rather than ejectors, or an assisted opener. Or the guy who wants a live pigeon gun rather than a light game gun – or the fellow who says a plague on that, I want a medium game gun.

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Originally Posted By: Remington40x
One additional thought. Spanish guns seem to have put on some weight in the last couple of years. 28 gauge guns used to run around 5 pounds 10 ounces to 5 pounds 13 ounces. Today you have to look hard to find one under about 6 pounds 2 ounces to 6 pounds 4 ounces. (I focus on the 28 gauge because that's what I was looking to purchase.) It seems true for 16s, which are approaching the standard British 12 gauge game gun weight of 6 pounds 12 ounces. The 12s are now running up to 7-1/4 pounds. I'm sure some of this results from strengthening the guns to handle the higher pressure of American factory loads, but if you're marketing to a traditional game gun buyer, that matters as well.

There’s a misapprehension here. The weight of a Spanish shotgun is determined by purpose of the gun, within the constraints of the configuration desired by the customer. A light game gun will usually run lighter than a medium game gun, and the medium game gun will usually be lighter than a pigeon (i.e. competition) gun. There is no standard gun weight because there is no standard gun. Here’s an example:



Both guns are 12 gauge. The gun on the right is an AyA model 53 built as a classic medium game gun. The gun on the left is a Luis Arrizabalaga model 228, built as a live pigeon gun. See the difference? The medium game gun is made for the occasional driven hunt, or for boar, and will be fired maybe a few hundred times a year. The pigeon gun is made to stand up to week in and week out high money competition, and may see a several hundred shells a week.

Those are examples of medium to heavy guns. Here is a light game gun, a 12 gauge Ascensio Zabala:





Note the thin and narrow action and the absence of any reinforcement or bolsters. This is a light game gun, made to be “carried much, shot little.”

When we see a significant difference in weight between two Spanish shotguns, we’re seeing two shotguns with different purposes.

Last edited by Kyrie; 10/02/14 05:01 PM.
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Kyrie:
A very informative post. I for one had no idea they were configured this way in Spain.
What would a customer expect to get if, for example, they ordered a custom built Spanish gun and specified it was to be used for Quail and Grouse but also as a regular Skeet gun?
Jim


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