doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Syracuse Arms

Tom, at first I thought the SAC trigger guards I was looking at were squashed from abuse. But over time I learned they were made that way.
I have a 16 Crass that I have trouble getting between the triggers. Yet, on my SAC's there seems to be no problem front to rear. I should measure the distance between them. I suspect that the SAC's have more room between the triggers, and if they didn't flatten the guard, the bow would be huge.

Tom, as always I want to say thanks for your efforts regarding SAC guns.

CZ,

Is your guy a trained engraver? I'm looking for someone, preferably someone just beginning in the business, to re-cut engraving on some restoration guns.
Thanks
Ken

I've always been intrigued by the SAC guns, with their angular receiver and flared forends. Very early American. I recently picked up this Syracuse 16, an OO grade with steel barrels:



It is in well worn condition, but still tight as a vault, with near perfect bores, 30" f/f. For as well used as this gun obviously is, and to still be rock solid tight, is very impressive for a gun with a patent date on the water table of 1893. I'm very impressed with the gun, and it feels very lively in my hands, even though it weighs 7lbs on the dot with the long barrels.

Marc
Can't tell much about your SAC gun from the single pic except that, from the safety slide, this example would be 1902 production or later (would be late 1903 or 1904 if it has the sliding cocking plate feature). SAC first cataloged its 16-bore gun in 1901, and the 16 was listed as being available in all hammerless grades 00 thru D from that point until production ceased. Based on my research, high-grade SAC 16 bores seem to be quite uncommon however; as I've recorded maybe a half-dozen A grades, 0 A-1 Special Trap Grades, 2 B Grades, 0 C Grades, and 2 D Grades(1902 was the catalog date for the SAC twenty but SAC 20 bores of any grade are REAL uncommon, as that bore size was only cataloged as available in grades 2, 3, A, and A-1; and only then with auto-ejectors, which option I'm sure further limited production. Cataloged 16 gauge barrel lengths were 26, 28, and 30"; and I don't recall weights off the cuff just now, but period ads claim the SAC 16 was made on a true 16 gauge frame. I recently stumbled into a 1903/04 vintage 16-bore SAC gun with ejectors and the on/off device with factory original 26" Damascus barrels. The gun remains tight as a tick with mint bores; but original finishes leave much to be desired. One of the very first SAC guns I ever owned was a 16-bore AE with 30" Krupp barrels that I got from the Klunkermiester, our dearly departed friend Rupp Ruppell. The barrels on that gun had survived in outstanding condition; but stocks were a glued together mess and it had been carried so much that the engraving was barely legible. Talk about durability; that gun must've been fired a million times! I traded the gun off, as it would have been far to costly to restore; but I sure wish I still had those barrels knowing what I know now! As to your comment on durability, as a layman shooter/collector (I don't remotely pretend to be a gun mechanic); I'm convinced that the SAC gun was as good, and in many cases better than its other period domestic competition while it was in production from 1893 into 1905 with the possible exception of the LC Smith. SAC was no excetion when it came to making improvements to their gun (which is why I've classified SAC guns from different prodcution periods as distinct models), but with the exception of the Smith gun (which rotary locking bolt was never changed and frame size actually reduced in 1907) practically all period American makers were quite busy introducing a redesigned gun, improved bolting devices, and/or reinforced frames and stock inletting intended to improve the durability of their gun during the 12 year production run of the SAC gun.

I apologize for the delay in my response Ken,
the youngster learning to engrave firearms (at my expense) works at a clockshop I frequent. I provided a couple junk actions that need engraving repairs, and he's learning to recut (ideally invisibly) take smoke pulls, annealing, yada, yada, When he gives me back "The Hollenbeck", in proper form, I'll give him tougher assignments. He's done some wonderful scroll cutting on some time pieces. He's got potential, But he's green.

CZ

He sounds like the type of guy I'm looking for. I figure recutting has to be easier that engraving from scratch, and it might be a way for him to improve his skills while making a few bucks. It'd be nothing high grade initially. The actions would be annealed and polished, with the engraving being the last step before I case color them. You might ask him if he's interested.

Thanks
Ken

I have owned 3 or 4 12 and 16 ga Grade o junkers, but my latest find would change anyone's mind about Syracuse guns. The doves are going to be in trouble.....

That is a nice looking gun!

Marks 21
That gun appears to be the SAC Grade A gun recently posted for sale on Gun International. Based on screw slot condition, this gun hasn't been molested, and all finishes appear to be original with the exception of stock wood; which appears to have been refinished and recheckered, and of course the pad is a recent addition. The features on this gun would indicate production in the 1902/1903 period (what I've described as the "2nd Model"); and it exhibits all the cataloged features of the SAC Grade A gun with the exception of optional Krupp Steel barrels. This gun was cataloged at $75 retail during this period, and represented a lot of value for a gun of this quality at that price point. That gun has lots of life remaining; and I hope you have ample opportunity to enjoy using this piece with great effect in the field.