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PA24 #375839 08/21/14 09:43 AM
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As a liberal with more than a little experience of public confrontations with police, I'll wait for the official report and consider it with some degree of cynicism depending on the source, as always.

As for what I would do if I were the police officer, I'd act on a determination of my life being in danger or a likely outcome of another fatality adding to another international incident. I'd have got out of there.

In retrospect, my guess is the officer wishes he had, too. Brown was walking away, according to the source. The officer drew his gun and ordered him to freeze. He'll live with the consequences the rest of his life.

King Brown #375841 08/21/14 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: King Brown


In retrospect, my guess is the officer wishes he had, too. Brown was walking away, according to the source. The officer drew his gun and ordered him to freeze. He'll live with the consequences the rest of his life.


King, you may be right, the officer may think that. The problem is that in a society governed by rules and with men and women charged with enforcing those rules, it was his job to do something about the person who had just assaulted him (if that was the case).

Police officers are not in the business of letting criminals walk away. We ask them, in fact, to ensure that does not happen, by whatever lawful means they deem necessary at the time.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
ed good #375845 08/21/14 10:04 AM
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it appears now that brown assaulted officer wilson, beating him severely about the face...then he arrogantly just walked away, like he did when he stole from the store...

not a good idea to beat a man with a gun and then think you can just walk away because you are bigger than he is...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
King Brown #375850 08/21/14 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: King Brown

As for what I would do if I were the police officer, I'd act on a determination of my life being in danger or a likely outcome of another fatality adding to another international incident. I'd have got out of there.



Police Officers are NOT TRAINED to RUN AWAY from felons or any individuals during the commission of a crime......but I guess in your liberal view of things our world would be a better place if ALL OF THE POLICE RAN AWAY AS YOU SUGGEST.....?

If you DO have any experience with law enforcement, your statement above surely demonstrates JUST THE OPPOSITE.

Your view if "you" were a police officer is quite warped King.... First off you "would never" have time to explore multiple liberal mental what if's in any "life or death" confrontation, you would be DEAD to fast.




Doug



King Brown #375855 08/21/14 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: King Brown
As a liberal with more than a little experience of public confrontations with police, I'll wait for the official report and consider it with some degree of cynicism depending on the source, as always.

As for what I would do if I were the police officer, I'd act on a determination of my life being in danger or a likely outcome of another fatality adding to another international incident. I'd have got out of there.

In retrospect, my guess is the officer wishes he had, too. Brown was walking away, according to the source. The officer drew his gun and ordered him to freeze. He'll live with the consequences the rest of his life.


what source King ????

The one that said he was shot in the back with his hands up ( and later changed his story-AFTER the autopsy !)

The one who now admits Brown went for Wilsons gun!!
( you try and be honest for just once and think about what your going do if some guy GOES FOR YOUR GUN ! (he isn't going to clean it for you-your going to DIE if he wins that fight)

Brown,turned around and bull rushed him ( just like he did in the store tape) and this is backed up by many witness's accounts,anyone who says they would have not tried to drop Brown in that situation is nuts. Life or death battle one wins one loses,if your Wilson thats your choice you or him.


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PA24 #375856 08/21/14 11:07 AM
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I understand fully your point, Doug. In my view, there was a disproportionate use of force which culminated in a killing from what appears to be a defence of property (stealing cigars?) and disobeying a police officer.

Officers can't enforce the law by running away. Killing a miscreant in defence of property is a no-no in Canada. A Toronto shopkeeper who shot a thief running from his store a few years ago was a national story.

It's not so much as not having experience with enforcement, Doug, as of a different culture. Life is valued more highly than a cigar or TV set. Officers even removing their sidearms on duty is an automatic inquiry.

King Brown #375857 08/21/14 11:10 AM
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and what about someone going for their gun ???

ANY cop, ANYWERE is not going to let you go for his gun,beat him up and then charge him again and not shoot,any cop that wants to live that is

"
Originally Posted By: King Brown
As a liberal with more than a little experience of public confrontations with police, I'll wait for the official report and consider it with some degree of cynicism depending on the source, as always.

As for what I would do if I were the police officer, I'd act on a determination of my life being in danger or a likely outcome of another fatality adding to another international incident. I'd have got out of there.

In retrospect, my guess is the officer wishes he had, too. Brown was walking away, according to the source. The officer drew his gun and ordered him to freeze. He'll live with the consequences the rest of his life.


what source King ????

The one that said he was shot in the back with his hands up ( and later changed his story-AFTER the autopsy !)

The one who now admits Brown went for Wilsons gun!!
( you try and be honest for just once and think about what your going do if some guy GOES FOR YOUR GUN ! (he isn't going to clean it for you-your going to DIE if he wins that fight)

Brown,turned around and bull rushed him ( just like he did in the store tape) and this is backed up by many witness's accounts,anyone who says they would have not tried to drop Brown in that situation is nuts. Life or death battle one wins one loses,if your Wilson thats your choice you or him.

“They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that’s when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face."

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm, resulting in the gun going off – although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"

At that point, the source told FoxNews.com, the 6-foot-4, 292-pound Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him, including the fatal bullet that penetrated the top of Brown's skull, according to an independent autopsy conducted at the request of Brown's family.

Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified" that a grand jury, which began hearing evidence on Wednesday, will "make some kind of example out of him," the source said.


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ed good #375858 08/21/14 11:15 AM
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A lot of those cops in Canada apparently are just not good shots !


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/city-police-rcmp-missing-the-mark-268224542.html

A Free Press analysis shows there have been at least 23 incidents since 2007 in which Winnipeg police and Manitoba RCMP officers have pulled the trigger in the course of their duties.

Yet only 15 cases ended with someone actually being shot. And only six of those people suffered fatal injuries.

That may seem like a surprising result considering police are trained to shoot for the so-called "centre of mass." You'd think with that amount of gunfire being aimed towards the heart, the body count would be a lot higher.

So why is that? Are police in Manitoba ignoring their own policies and shooting at the extremities? Or are they following procedure but just lousy shots?

"To instantly kill someone you'd have to shoot them in the head. But police aren't trained to do that," he said.

And so the centre of the body it is, where there is the greatest chance of cutting the suspect down to size.

Retired Winnipeg police officer James Jewell said where the shot ultimately ends up can be impacted by numerous factors including movement, adrenaline, distance, stress and time.

"Officer-involved shootings are dynamic, high-stress incidents that often occur in a matter of mere seconds," said Jewell. "While it's true many suspects have been shot in the shoulder, arm, thigh and buttocks, I can assure you these areas were not the intended targets."


Police-involved shootings in the past seven years

The 15 police-involved shootings in Manitoba since 2007 where a suspect was hit. This list does not include eight other cases in that same time span, all in Winnipeg, where shots were fired by police at a suspect or vehicle but nobody was hit.


JULY 2014: Evan Cromarty, 20, shot and wounded by RCMP in Norway House. Police were trying to arrest him on new criminal charges. Witnesses say he was unarmed and that as many as four shots were fired. He suffered a bullet wound to the shoulder. Alberta police have been brought in to investigate.

MAY 2014: Andrew Lebrun, 21, shot and wounded by Winnipeg police. He was accused of robbing a Domo -- where his own brother was working -- and then lunging towards police with a knife. A witness believes three shots were fired. He suffered a bullet wound to the upper arm.

NOVEMBER 2011: Steven Peters, 28, shot and wounded by RCMP on Long Plain First Nation. Police were responding to a call about multiple assaults on the reserve. Peters confronted police while armed with a baseball bat. He suffered a bullet wound to the stomach. Regina police were brought in to investigate.

JULY 2011: John Charlette, 27, shot and wounded by Winnipeg police in a North End alley. He was accused of robbing a cab driver and threatening both him and responding police with a knife. He suffered a bullet wound to an undisclosed location. His lawyer later told court Charlette was attempting "suicide by cop."

MARCH 2011: Paul Duck, 52, shot and killed by RCMP in God's Lake First Nation. Duck confronted police while armed with a shotgun. He was struck twice and died instantly. Saskatoon police were brought in to investigate.

NOVEMBER 2010: A 14-year-old boy shot and wounded by Winnipeg police on Portage Avenue. The teen was behind the wheel of a vehicle which led police on a high-speed mid-day chase and veered towards officers. The teen suffered a bullet wound to an undisclosed location.

JULY 2010: Geoffrey Reid, 23, shot and wounded by Winnipeg police on Alexander Avenue. Reid threatened police with a gun following a traffic stop. He was struck once in the lower body.

MAY 2010: Lance Muir, 42, shot and killed by Winnipeg police on Langside Street. The former biker with a notorious criminal past had broken into a home, then led police on a dangerous high-speed chase in a stolen car. Witnesses say he was armed with a crowbar and had veered his car towards officers.

MARCH 2010: Eric Daniels, 28, shot and killed by Winnipeg police on Sargent Avenue. The known gang member confronted police with a machete and refused to drop the weapon when they responded to a disturbance call. Three shots were fired, and one struck and killed him.

JULY 2009: Derek Richard, 27, shot and wounded by Winnipeg police on Mountain Avenue. Police were executing a drug search warrant when they were confronted by Richard. Police never disclosed if he was armed with a weapon. He was struck with at least two bullets in the stomach.

FEBRUARY 2009: Matthew Prince, 24, shot and wounded by Winnipeg police on Ashburn Street. Police were responding to the stabbing of a woman when they were confronted by the man who was armed with a pair of butcher knives. He suffered two bullet wounds to the arm and thigh.

AUGUST 2008: Craig McDougall, 26, shot and killed by Winnipeg police on Simcoe Street. He confronted police with what they believed was a knife -- but witnesses claim was a cellphone -- when they responded to a disturbance call. He was Tasered and then shot four times. An inquest into his death is pending.

DECEMBER 2007: Roy Bell, 44, shot and killed by Winnipeg police on Langside Street. Bell confronted police while armed with an airsoft pellet gun and had a history of mental illness, which led to his discharge from the Canadian Forces.

JULY 2007: Kristofer Fournier, 23, shot and wounded by Winnipeg police in River Heights. Fournier, a known drug dealer, had led police on a high-speed chase. He was unarmed. He suffered a bullet wound to the buttocks. Two police officers involved in the shooting were charged criminally but later acquitted by a jury.

MARCH 2007: Ahmed Saleh-Azad, 61, shot and killed by Winnipeg police responding to a call for help inside Madison Memorial Lodge on Evanson Street. He had just stabbed a man to death and refused police demands to drop his weapon as he hovered over the victim's body.


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Dave K #375859 08/21/14 11:15 AM
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I was referring to the source quoted in a story (fox news?) posted by a member.

I prefaced my post with willing to wait for the official report because it's mostly speculation and gossip otherwise.

Dave K #375860 08/21/14 11:24 AM
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I was talking to a Mountie last week, pointed at his pistol and asked if he was a good shot.

"We get one day a year on the range to qualify," he said.

"That's not enough," I said.

"It isn't. But that's the budget."

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