April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Who's Online Now
5 members (fullandfuller, Perry M. Kissam, graybeardtmm3, CJF, 1 invisible), 1,068 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,467
Posts545,123
Members14,409
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931
OK. One last vent and I'm off.

It's clear now that all this thing is going nowhere. Russia is quickly and secretly pulling out of Ukraine, Putin already admitted that the Donetsk and Lugansk regions are Ukrainian territory, in a few days the dust will settle and everything will sort of return to more or less as it used to be. The world will likely slip into a Cold War v.2.0 but that doesn't seem to be such a serious threat as compared to nuclear warfare. Everyone can cool off and relax, sort of.

But there's something that's going to be missing from the picture.

300 people, who had nothing whatever to do with the conflict.

They died.

(Just like the infamous Kursk submarine, which 'sunk').

300 beautiful people. Students, scientists, just families. A grangpa with three grandkids. Look into their faces. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/malaysia-airlines-victims-photos_n_5600372.html Read into their lives. http://time.com/3012667/mh17-victims/ They are treated as expendable pawns by the 'global powers' now, but they were people. They lived. Now they are dead.

It could have been someone you love. It could have been you. It could have been me. As a matter of fact, it really could have been me and my family. The news of the crash came right as we were about to board a Rome-Moscow flight which normally flies over Ukraine. Of course, days before the incident the Russian air authorities closed Ukrainian air space for Russian flights (what a coincidence!), but we didn't know about that just then. Besides, things look differently from a board of a plane which is about to fly in the neighbourhood of someone who's shooting down civilian airplanes with long-range rockets.

I believe (that's the right word, 'believe', as, like one journalist aptly noted, there's no information about it, only propaganda, so nobody can 'know' anything) that the plane was shot down by mistake. Some proverbial monkey-with-a-hand-grenade was trying to hit an army plane but missed. But it doesn't really matter now. All military conflict involves deaths of innocent people. A war is a mess full of people who survive by shooting quickly and shooting to kill. It's a chaos full of accidents waiting to happent and no amount of good intentions will prevent it.

It doesn't matter much now what was the monkey's nationality, whether it was Ukrainian or Russian, volunteer, professional military or mercenary. The monkey was there because there was a war going on. And whatever your take on the conflict, there's one indisputable fact - without Russian support, there wouldn't be any 'self-proclaimed states'. There wouldn't be any war in the region.

The war happened because of a nation's and a leader's imperial revanchist ambitions, and now they're going to get away with it. And they'll start again somewhere else. If they don't, someone else will. We can all remember how it was during the Cold War. The third world was full of petty tyrants who came to power by asking for money from the USSR to have a 'socialist revolution', then they were overthrown by other ambitious bastards who got money from the US to 'restore lawful democratic regime', and over and over again. Now we're slipping into another Cold War. That means more 'minor conflicts', more monkeys with hand grenades.

You never know where and when the next monkey's hand grenade will go off. It can be a nut case deciding the only way to stop bloodshed is blowing him- or herself up in a crowd. It can be a refugee from a war zone, desperate for money, breaking into a house and confronting the homeowner. It can be that a doctor who could've cured you dying in a crash. Everytime you say 'oh, come on, it's just some far-away monkeys, let them kill each other', you're inviting something like that to happen to you. Yes, you.

In today's intertangled world, there's no such thing as 'someone else's war'

There. I'm feeling better now. Thanks for reading. No reply necessary.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740
Likes: 97
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740
Likes: 97
well, ok then we should not worry about these isis guys? i mean they will set up their little empire in parts of syria and iraq and that will be it then?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703
Likes: 103
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703
Likes: 103
Originally Posted By: ed good
well, ok then we should not worry about these isis guys? i mean they will set up their little empire in parts of syria and iraq and that will be it then?


Not doing something about the Middle East now is likely a mistake. However America is in no position at present to take on any foreign adventure.

I don't remember my Country being as divided as it is since the civil rights/Vietnam era. We don't even have a fully functioning court system now what with the liberal appointees making law from the bench in one direction and conservative Judges doing the same thing in the other direction. The Supreme Court is reduced to a function of which side has had the best luck in packing it recently.

We'd be better served nowadays just hoping no one notices that the USA is ripe for outside attack or a military coup. Perhaps the midterm elections will settle our national philosophy, but it seems to me that the gridlock in government is just a reflection of the evenly divided American public...Geo

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463
Likes: 212
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463
Likes: 212
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
....it seems to me that the gridlock in government is just a reflection of the evenly divided American public...Geo


The direction and philosophy of the country does not seem to reflect gridlock at all. I believe what we're told is gridlock is intolerance of the minority ideology.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Humpty,

Your last two posts were incredibly perceptive. You clearly have an understanding of "Realpolitik". I see you're posting from Russia, are you a Russian citizen, or are you an expatriate living there?

What is happening now is no different than what has happened throughout history, an early example being the conflict between Persia and the Greek City-States, with the Ionian League being in the middle of the conflict. With one important difference, directly relating to your point about aggressor countries/movements (primarily Islamic) willing to wage war but being without the means to do so. This is the role of public/world opinion as reported by the press, and intertwined within is the role of the United Nations.

The United Nations is currently a corrupt organization, skewed to support Islamic Fundamentalism due to the massive influence of Petrodollars. It's been fairly easy for the Middle Eastern oil producing states, especially Saudi Arabia, to simply buy votes within the UN. They also use their massive wealth to influence journalists on a world-wide scale. This enables aggressive Islamic factions/States to instigate violence for strictly propagandistic reasons, knowing full well that they'll be unable to achieve their objectives militarily, but will trigger a UN/world press response that will bring on the pressure of world opinion, and allow them to achieve their goals politically, with the UN as the facilitator. This is what is happening now in the current Israel/Hamas conflict, the Hamas objective is to create sympathy so there will be opinion pressure brought against Israel with the political objective being Israel lifting the current blockade. A blockade that, along with the building of the security fence, has been very effective in preventing violence against Israeli citizens.

World opinion often cuts both ways, as now Putin has clearly lost any real sense of moral justification for his involvement in the Ukraine. So, I agree things will probably cool down as Russia de-escalates, as world opinion turns against Russian involvement. I also agree that shooting down the airliner was not intentional. That's the problem when you have "Monkeys" with their fingers on the buttons of advanced weaponry.

Do you think the sinking of the Kursk was sabotage? Or, a malfunctioning torpedo due to the Hydrogen Peroxide propulsion system?


Last edited by Ken61; 07/23/14 01:02 PM.

I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463
Likes: 212
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463
Likes: 212
Originally Posted By: Ken61
Humpty,

Your last two posts were incredibly perceptive. You clearly have an understanding of "Realpolitik"....


I appreciated his insight also. I think this is one of those relatively rare instances when there are 'borders'. I don't think waiting around for a 'monkey' to flip a switch and lamenting the 'innocent', who have chosen sides, really helps much. My hat's off to him for even bringing it up.

It may be a global problem, but at least around here, it's clear to see how engaged the US is in most any world problem. Much of the bellyaching around these parts centers around unilateral executive rule. I'm thinking it's going to be largely up to Russians to change the direction of their ideology. If they choose the wait and see tactic, I think they'll signal the world tendency.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703
Likes: 103
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703
Likes: 103
Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
....it seems to me that the gridlock in government is just a reflection of the evenly divided American public...Geo


The direction and philosophy of the country does not seem to reflect gridlock at all. I believe what we're told is gridlock is intolerance of the minority ideology.


I guess the mid term elections will answer that question...Geo

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
The term "Gridlock" is subjective. To the unconstitutionally sociopathic religious statists of the Democrat party, it means not finding enough minions, dupes, and useful idiots in the Republican party to go along with them to further their Totalitarian agenda.

Gridlock, is in fact a term of statist religious demonization, applied by the sociopathic democrats in order to demonize those who actually believe in individual freedom and equality. Typical sociopathic statist religious bigotry.


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 1
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: ed good
well, ok then we should not worry about these isis guys? i mean they will set up their little empire in parts of syria and iraq and that will be it then?


Gee, I would enjoy your life and not worry about isis people. That is why we have CIA, NSA and Mossad.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 1
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 1
PS. Iris are nice flowers, luv them. These are beautiful and rodent proof. I have planted a whole bunch around my back yard fish pond. smirk

Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.078s Queries: 35 (0.041s) Memory: 0.8658 MB (Peak: 1.8989 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-04-26 03:08:55 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS