doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Altering Chokes

I thought we were talking about upland hunters, Larry. Now you bring skeet shooters into the mix, not I. Every target on a skeet field can be crushed with a negative .005". Anybody that rises to the top in skeet has to be praised, for their ability to memorize leads and not be bored to death with the game. Skeet has very little in common with the kind of wingshooting I do. McIntosh was guilty of writing to grouse and woodcock shooters, not upland hunters in general. I liked Mac, conversed with him at times about doves in Cordoba, but his accuracy in writing left a bit to be desired at times, IMO.

I challenge you, Larry, try what I say. Give up all your open chokes for 6 months, and tighten up, really tight. Modified or tighter. You seem to shoot enough targets to give it a fair try int he off season. Then, tell me that I am wrong. You are arguing against something you seem to have never tried. I'm not. I tried the "Use open chokes to make up for poor shooting" game. Then, I went the other way. I am reporting results. Many others here have said the same thing. But, you insist it can't be, even though you have never said you have given it a fair try. Maybe you have, but I don't remember you ever claiming to have .

SRH

I'm still waiting to hear how a 20 with .000/.000 could work on 50+ yd crossers. Hevishot, maybe?

I sold most of my fixed cyl guns after attempting to eliminate WC and grouse sized holes at dead center of pattern past 20 yds with #7.5s. I managed 25 yds with the Miroku 28 by going with B&P 15/16 oz loads in their small #8 size.

Larry correctly notes you can push the envelope by using buffered baby mags. 20 ga WS1s usually have around .003 and that combination will get to around 30 yds in the field, IME. After that first box I never purchased another. Guess I don't really want to stuff 1.125 oz buffered loads in my 20s.

Still have a "cyl" M-12 20 that has .002. About the only use I have for it is to get kids off the ground shooting station 1 and 7 incomers with weenies. Even during the first week of Oct I have better options in the field. We can take grouse right up to Dec 31. A .000 20 is a just silly when the leaves are down up here. The birds know when I have one, and then I can bank on getting a 35-40 yd opportunity down a woods road. I consider that .010 16 discussed earlier a very good season-long choice.

Again, a .000 12 is a different beast, mostly on the basis of payload.

Sam

Stan, we have to remember the heritage of skeet: Invented by grouse hunters for off season practice. So, it's a game that relates closely to upland hunting. Usually, those attacking chokes like cylinder or skeet for upland hunting drag out the "well, how about pheasants?" argument. To which I respond: "Well, how about them?" I averaged between 65-70 wild roosters per season for a lot of years, back when Iowa was the #1 pheasant state in the nation--and I went to chokes that were progressively more open. Sure, you can take 40+ yard shots at pheasants--but you seldom HAVE to take those if you're in good pheasant country, and most pheasant hunters aren't capable of killing birds reliably at that range anyhow. Add to that the fact that if you happen to just take out a wing on a rooster you drop at 25 yards, your dog stands a better chance of recovering that cripple than one you drop at 45 yards--with more of a head start. So, since you admit that you don't hunt pheasants, I guess I've got a bit of an edge on you there--with the very bird that's usually cited as "Why I need a tight choke for upland hunting". The kind of wingshooting you do--you stated mostly doves and ducks--is not what McIntosh was talking about in the article. And he clearly wasn't talking about targets.

Stan, I could do a lot of things that might make me a better target shooter. Like shoot targets with guns that weigh more than 6 1/2 pounds. But for me, targets are a game. Hunting is not. I shoot targets with the same guns I take hunting. I shoot a lot of low gun at targets, because I understand that practicing gun mount on a regular basis will help me when I'm shooting birds. But then if I were young and really serious about target shooting, I'd make a lot of changes--starting with switching from right-handed to left, since I'm strongly left eye dominant. But I've learned to compensate for that, and since I'll turn 69 next month, I figure I'm too old a dog for that new trick.

Sam, I'd eliminate holes in 20ga cyl patterns beyond 20 yards by going to smaller size shot. I don't think you need 7 1/2's to kill grouse until you get out beyond 30 yards--never mind woodcock--and that's a pretty long poke at a grouse. But I don't think it's a bad idea to leave your L barrel choked IC and shoot something like an ounce of 7 1/2's. In my case, the vast majority of the woodcock and grouse I take are first barrel kills; there's frequently no followup shot possible if I miss, because the bird has disappeared in the cover. But I wouldn't suggest a gun with no choke in BOTH barrels, except maybe for woodcock exclusively.

As a former and now occasional registered skeet shooter, I Agee with Stan that skeet does very little to help the game shot. Even though it was invented by grouse hunters to help their shooting, it has now evolved into a mounted heavy competition gun game, a precision and robotic form of shooting. A totally different style than that used by the game bird hunter. In fact, in 2014 I see little resemblance to game shooting on a skeet field. And sporting clays has headed in the same direction. It was invented with the hunter in mind, too.

Skeet has helped me be a better wing shot, but not as the game is usually played. From station 1 on, I tell the button pusher that he can't make me miss and it is his choice to delay, not delay, throw singles or doubles or both.
I begin with a low gun and don't shoulder the gun until the bird is in the air. Also I tell him that I'm ready when I close my gun. It worked for me.

Amen to Buzz & Wyobirds.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

I agree that American skeet, as shot competitively, has evolved in such a way as to have minimal value to a hunter--IF he plays the game the way it's played in competition. On the other hand, it can be played with a variable delay and starting from low gun--both of which were part of original skeet competition. And you can play it with a 5# 28, and not take much of a backseat to someone with an 8# 12--at least as far as a 28's capability to break birds goes. You are putting yourself at a disadvantage, as far as score goes, compared to shooting premounted with no delay--but skeet does give you excellent practice on crossing birds. You learn to lead, and if you don't shoot premounted with measured, sustained lead (which is of minimal use when hunting) but shoot either swing-through or move-mount-shoot, it will make you a better shot in the field.