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Yes, see my contact info. Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre is FN, so Liege Belgium.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I'd hazard a guess that Otto Reif was involved in this piece too and that there are Simson Triangle/trademarks on the frame. And as throughout the thread, Edgar Strempel of Suhl was in the pool of talented mechanics that executed this piece.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

But with all involved in the case, it is most difficult to ID from afar. The best that can be ascertained is thru correlation only so the origin can be narrowed but not truly defined unless the marks are made visible. But pretty neat to view for afar a gun display in Beijing.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Beijing Police Museum example


Otto Reif example from 1947







Barella


http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post327959

It will take a bit, but I think the above pin configuration to be similar(maybe not but it is a start) but let me ponder.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Beijing Police Museum example


Britte finished by SDH-MT


Christophe

Closer but still not exact pin configuration?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I found the following on Otto Reif Suhl in an April 19th, 1951 article & it may take a bit to extract any more & correct but it is a riot.

"Thursday, April 19, 1951 Otto Reif Wins Divorce From East Germany Gunsmith Safe In West Berlin BERLIN, April Iff.--(£)--Otto Reif has won his divorce from East Germany and Communist life, after a bitter battle. Sixty-six year old Reif, one of the world's greatest gunsmiths, is safe in West Berlin with his family and his best workers, his tools and all he needs to start life again. Reif made shotguns all his life in Suhl, Thuringia, one of Europe's gun centers. He made them for the Kaiser and for the Nazi hunters. There was nothing political in old Otto's guns until Communism came along. A while before Stalin's birthday, in December, 1949, the Russians came to Otto and said: "We want the finest shotgun ever made for Generalissimo Stalin's birthday. Ivory stock. Gold engraving and some jewels. What will it cost?" Reif asked for time and calculated. Two sets of matched guns. He came back with an estimated 65,000 marks. The East mark in such a case cannot be calculated in dollars. An East mark is worth only about one-fifth of the west mark on the black market but the fact is it buys what a man needs in the east zone where the average worker gets 150 to 200 marks monthly. The Russians told Reif that was a satisfactory deal. He made the guns and eventually brought them, in push cases, The Russian officers admired them, accepted delivery and told Reif to beat it. Months went by and it became clear no payment would be made. He was almost ruined. By putting in 15 and 16 hour days himself, and scrimping on every conceivable item, Reif managed to keep his business from folding up. About six- months after, ( lie episode, he was able to sight and reckon he had recovered from the financial blow. Then the German Communist leadership walked into the shop. One of them said: "We understand you made shotguns for Marshal Stalin. You forgot to pay the luxury tax....

....The money comes from oil and Another 65,000 marks. . Reif was aghast, and said: ' "But I'll be ruined." -Obviously you are not a good businessman," the Communists said. "It is apparent the state should operate your shops on a much more business-like basis." That's when Otto had enough. Little by little he started to move his prizes out of the Russian zone into West Berlin and finally came over himself. His Suhl works is now a "people's owned" shop but the art of Reif's gun-making is gone. Those who possess it are in West Berlin with the old master. The Allied Military Security Board has given Reit a license to manufacture shotguns. "I wonder," he muses. "Did Stalin ever get those guns?""

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for posting Raimey. Have you found anything noting how long Reif continued to work as a gunsmith after arriving in West Berlin?

Mark

Baumgarten:
I believe the above to all be fiction or a lie. Dietrich has info that notes Otto Reif of Suhl was a scoundrel and was run out of Suhl on a rail. So said divorce was more like a purging. I believe I can safely say that when Otto Reif of Suhl fled East Germany he lost his mechanics, and possibly his connection with Edgar Strempel, and he couldn't fill any orders as he couldn't file his way out of a wet paper bag. I have yet to see his name & the term b�chsenmacher in the same sentence, in any registers or the like.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

HD(Humpty Dumpty) is correct and post WWII they paid little attention to titles or job descriptions:

Raum Suhl/ Zella-Mehlis

Simson u. Co. / Gustloffwerke Suhl (4941201) [1925 - 1946; 15 lfm + 3 Negativfilme �ber Bestand]

J. P. Sauer und Sohn (4941202) [1818 - 1947; 5,8 lfm]

C. G. Haenel Suhl (4941203) [1843 - 1950; 5,4 lfm]

Otto Reif Suhl (4941204) [1934 - 1951; 1 lfm]

Greifelt und Co. (4941205) [1881 - 1949; 0,5 lfm]

Gebr. Merkel (4941206) [1924 - 1950; 0,8 lfm]

Fritz Kie� u. Co. GmbH, Suhl (4941207) [1944 - 1951; 0,1 lfm]

W. Zieglarsky Metallwarenhandel Suhl (4941208) [1923 - 1968; 1,0 lfm]

Rudolf Popp, Benshausen (4941209) [1805 - 1945; 0,3 lfm]

H. Weihrauch Zella-Mehlis (4941210) [1923 - 1948; 0,8 lfm]

E. Hemming Benshausen (4941211) [1934 - 1952; 0,4 lfm]

Friedrich Wilhelm Heym, Waffenfabrik Suhl (4941212) [1923 - 1968; 0,1 lfm]

Luck u. Wagner Suhl (4941213) [1933 - 1949; 0,3 lfm]

Wissner AG Zella-Mehlis (4941214) [1892 - 1948; 10 lfm]

Andreas Jopp Zella-Mehlis (4941215) [1908 - 1948; 1 lfm]

Karl B�chel Zella-Mehlis (4941216) [1936 - 1948; 1,5 lfm]

F. R. Langenhan Zella-Mehlis (4941217) [1886 - 1949; 0,5 lfm]

Hugo Funk S�hne Zella-Mehlis (4941218) [1911 - 1949; 3 lfm]

Gebr. Kerner Suhl (4941219) [1936 - 1945; 1 lfm]

VEB Ernst-Th�lmann-Werk Suhl (4941220) [1920 - 1988; 20,8 lfm]

VEB Fahrzeug- und Jagdwaffenwerk Kombinat f�r Zweiradfahrzeuge Suhl (4941221) [1969 - 1990; 271,5 lfm]

VEB Fahrzeugteilewerk Zella-Mehlis (4941222) [1949 - 1958; 2,1 lfm]

VEB Pedalwerk Suhl (4941223) [1948 - 1950; 0,8 lfm]

Albert Wilhelm Wolf, Jagdgewehr-Fabrik Suhl (4941224) [1949 - 1976; 1,3 lfm]

VEB MEWA Ernst-Th�lmann-Werk I Suhl (4941225) [1948 - 1957; 6 lfm]

VEB MEWA Fortuna-Werk II Suhl (4941226) [1946 - 1953; 0,32 lfm]

VEB MEWA Jagdgewehr- und Lehrenbau Werk IIII Suhl (4941227) [1948 - 1957; 0,6 lfm]

VEB MEWA Gebr. Merkel Werk IV Suhl (4941228) [1948 - 1954; 0,62 lfm]

VEB MEWA Lehrbetrieb "Geschwister Scholl" Werk V Suhl (4941229) [1949 - 1953; 0,2 lfm]

VEB Jagdwaffenwerk "Hubertus" Suhl (4941230) [1953 - 1977; 1 lfm]

VEB Simson Suhl (4941231) [1945 - 1969; 63,1 lfm]

VEB August-Bebel-Werk Zella-Mehlis (4941232) [1909 - 1990; 112,5 lfm]

VEB Fahrzeug- und Jagdwaffenwerk, BT Schwarza (4941233) [1970-1980; 0,1 lfm]

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Based on Otto Reif's reputation as a scoundrel/ne-re do well my wording "... continued to work as a gunsmith" gave credit to were credit was not due but I was just wondering if he continued on as many cats do after being thrown from the highest buildings, much like many of our politicians. It reads as though 1951 was pretty much it for the old boy.

Mark