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Doc Drew, I'm looking forward to reading your article or articles on this subject. I predict that the work you are having done and reporting will be equal in importance to our obsession with old guns as the Sherman Bell series!...Geo

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I didn't mean to clutter up the low pressure load thread, and also hope not to give away ALL the good stuff smile but to be clear:

1. The 1891 Birmingham Proof House Report (the testing apparently started in 1888) did show a slight advantage to the steel barrels tested. Please see
https://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowle...TEK8OtPYVA/edit

2. Steel barrels tested and period published tensile strength:
Siemens (Open Hearth): 58,000 - 62,700 psi
Whitworth: 66,000 - 67,200 psi
Bessemer or Decarbonized Steel: 55,000 - 70,000 psi
It is likely some of the barrels were similar to AISI 1018 Low Carbon (Mild) Steel: 64,000 psi

3. Recent tensile strength testing of both Twist and Crolle Damascus was remarkably consistent and averaged about 54,000 psi

4. Fluid steel introduced in the 1890s including Krupp and Belgian sourced tubes used by (almost) all the U.S. makers have a much higher tensile strength in the range of 90,000-110,000 psi.

5. BUT Pattern Welded barrels were intended for use by the U.S. makers for smokeless powder (and they said so), were proof tested by the makers (and they said so), do NOT weaken over time (proved by recent testing), and if they have adequate wall thickness and are free of pits, weld-fractures or bulges continue to be of adequate strength for the loads for which they were originally intended.



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To continue Miller's warning that tensile strength is only a part of the equation for estimating bursting pressure:

Barlow's formula P=2 S t / D
P=Bursting pressure in psi.
S=Tensile strength of material in tube wall.
t=Wall thickness in inches.
D=Outside diameter in inches.

http://www.aerocomfittings.com/barlows.html

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The Summer 2014 Issue of Parker Pages will have an informative article by Dave Suponski concerning the variations in fluid-pressed steels used in the various barrel grades of Parker Bros. shotguns from Trojan Steel through Vulcan Steel, Parker Steel, Parker Special Steel, Titanic Steel, Acme Steel.
It is a very interesting read but I won't spill the beans here - The issue will start hitting mailboxes in about two weeks.

Dean

Last edited by DAM16SXS; 05/13/14 10:47 PM.
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Still working on reported tensile strength of 1890 - 1900 steels. Found this old thread by Raimey with lots of information
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...amp;type=thread

BUT I'm having trouble keeping up with Krupp who developed several fluid steels after 1890, and which Belgium likely copied. Any help?

Krupp (Open Hearth): 70,000 - 80,000 psi
Krupp Fluss Stahl (Homogeneous) about 1890: ?
Krupp Nickel Steel patented in 1890: 92,500 psi
Krupp Special (1896 Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl): ?
1905 Krupp Chrome Nickel Steel D: 106,500 psi

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Drew, where in that list would you expect Krupp Prime Steel to fall? (drilling barrels so marked from about 1908)


Sam Welch
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Sam: Raimey would know more about the various new fangled Krupp barrels. Shotguns and drillings marked Prima Flussstahl Krupp-Essen and Krupp Laufstahl Nitro are not uncommon, and the name may well be a marketing rather than a material difference.

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It comes down to price & Mr. Augustus Reichwald, Krupp's London agent, explains it best. There is quite a separation in cost between the Krupp Special Gun Barrel Steel(3 Ringe Stahl) & the Krupp Fluß-Stahl; hence the difference in technology. I have very strong suspicions that a tube stamped with Prima Fluß-Stahl Krupp Essen most likely has origins in Liege or possibly Ferlach.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Sam: Raimey would know more about the various new fangled Krupp barrels. Shotguns and drillings marked Prima Flussstahl Krupp-Essen and Krupp Laufstahl Nitro are not uncommon, and the name may well be a marketing rather than a material difference.
I'd like to see a foto of the Prima Flussstahl Krupp-Essen- Herr Ellenberg has it spelled correctly, Herr Doktor Haus-- It is FLU (reversed capital letter B) which is correct for the double s we use in English-- Two other points- That reversed Capital B (wish my Dell keyboard had that, along with the umlat for the four vowels, when appropriate) will Never start a sentence, and one interesting thing about the German word structure- all nouns and proper names will always start with a Capital letter- End of lesson- Oh, did you get the 11 gauge Parker Lifter barrel sections I asked friend Brad B. to send along to you. Time to "mend fences" as I respect any man who understands metallurgy, as you seem to do- also classical music and Van Gogh's works-- RWTF


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I posted a photo of the marks a couple of years ago in a thread titled "Merkel based gun?". The Krupp Prima Stahl marks with surmounted eagle appear to be hand cut rather than stamped. I was just wondering where this steel might fall in the range of steels Drew posted, meaning I suppose its strength.


Sam Welch
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