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Let's say it's inate, or let's say it's a character flaw or even some medical disorder. Take a pick, or any combination.

Why are gays framed, sold?, as the victim even by friends. Why not start the discussion that 'straights' are being discriminated against. Shouldn't basic rights, protections, laws, policy, etc. apply to all, and no citizen should be entitled to special status.

What's special status. Exec orders, regulation, ignoring lawful votes, legislating from the bench, early education funding, and on and on. If it's convenient, there're many terrible historical examples to dig up, but the rain of discrimination and violence just isn't so.

Craig, I entirely agree. No special status for anyone....gay, black, native etc. You have my vote.

However, if I were gay and an activist type and I looked around to see what behaviors other minorities had used to advance their cause, I'd probably choose the path they have and the path you and I hate. It's not gays....it's what has proven successful to activists from any minority that considers itself discriminated against. The problem lies not with the minority attempting to advance their cause by all means effective, but with the majority as led by their courts and politicians for being so foolish as to go along with it. To be blackmailed into it. Spineless!

What's the solution? Quite easy, theoretically. Don't discriminate. All men are created equal, although that's not actually true. All men have equal value as humans, but they are not equal. Some are big, some small, some are smart, some not so smart.

As far as the rain of discrimination and violence not being so, I have to disagree. I'm 55. For a good portion of my life, around the world, in most countries, engaging in homosexual activity was not just frowned upon, but illegal. State (country, not US state)and cultural supported discrimination against them is easy to find even now. Numerous countries offer the death penalty for homosexual activity. Look at Russia before the Sochi games. Gay bashing is common enough that we have a name for it....gay bashing.

Members here have described how they had to be physically held back from committing violence against gays because they were expressing affection for each other. I said it before and I'll repeat now, whatever it was those two gay fellows were doing that so enraged and offended JRB in the bar in the late seventies, I highly suspect that if the same behavior had been exhibited at the time by a hetero couple, while JRB may have found it offensive, I sincerely doubt that violence would have been his reaction.

Apparently its ok for them to discriminate :

What will the fascist gay lobby say now?

Governor of New Mexico, Susana Martinez, has been told by her gay hairdresser that he will no longer be working on her coif. It seems that her hairdresser, Mr. Antonio Darden, does not appreciate the Governor�s stance on homosexuality and gay marriage. Because of this he will no longer cut her hair.

Darden told a local news station that he cut the governor�s hair three times, but won�t do it again as long as she continues to oppose gay marriage.

The fact is that the gay lobby and the liberal community have overplayed their hand. They have been refusing service (and worse) to conservatives FOR YEARS. Whether the issue has been homosexuality, immigration, abortion, etc. they have always found reasons to marginalize and attack us. Now that Christians have turned the tables and refused to perform at gay weddings, the gay lobby has gotten litigious.

Read more at http://eaglerising.com/4959/fascist-gay-lobbys-hypocrisy/#Iix2Q7ZwGC5HC3Zz.99

Tough call on the 'do not discriminate'. All law is discriminatory in some sense or to some one. What I think should be without question is equal application and properly change laws as indicated or wanted. The lobbying tactics are ok to me, it's the unilateral possibly unlawful/unconstitutional force feeding on all.

Gay bashing in other countries, that's their call and not related to social engineering that's 'changing' the US. Seems an issue worth fighting for, should be worth fighting for internationally. The folks that can affect the world apparently choose not to, wonder why.

James, I don't have time right now ro respond to everything, but I do want to take a moment to respond to the above. You and I, we typically agree on almost everything. We have corresponded both on and off these open forum pages without a trace of rancor or animosity. But I am here to say that I disagree completely with your notion that we share a common interest with King, Gnomoron, nca225, Dave-in-Maine, homer, etc. That is to say, unless you think we all have the goal of slowly indoctrinating others, especially the silent majority who views but never posts here, into believing and supporting a Leftist, Socialist, Progressive platform which includes restrictions on our gun rights.

You have been steadfast like Diogenes looking and searching for an honest man, trying to engage them and make them see the same light that the founding fathers of the U.S. framed the Constitution upon. Others have tried too, and failed. You have not changed one neuron in their Liberal Left brains. If you think you have, please show us. If anything, King, the mostly last man standing until the re-emergence of the slimy piece of shit ncaa225, has become even more entrenched and more determined to simply ignore any reason or truth or factual evidence.

It's admirable for you to try, but you are beating your head against a stone wall and lending them credence and an air of respectability that they do not deserve. I can't make you stop. I won't even ask you to stop. You'll have to see for yourself that you are wasting your time, and at the same time giving them a place of honor and a platform to use our First Amendment to undermine the Second and many others.

If you could just give us one small example where you've changed a Libtards heart and mind here...

I don't expect to myself. I gave up on that some time ago. Better to direct our energies to simply exposing them for what they are and speaking to that silent majority that sits on the fence.

And that James, is why they all worked so hard to a man to keep Second Amendment topics buried here in Misfires. The last thing they want is for the truth about Liberalism and Socialism to see the light of day.

craig, as you no doubt know, what I meant by "do not discriminate" is exactly what you wrote....equal application of all laws combined with the removal or adjustment of current laws that are discriminatory.

Keith, it's the one area I know we disagree on and I'm fine with that. Because the thing we disagree about is primarily and simply tactics. Not objectives. You keep being you and I'll keep being me and we'll continue to enjoy each other here on misfires. Takes all kinds!

There are a couple points I want to make with regard to this paragraph. The first is we ARE like all those members you just mentioned and millions of other liberal/leftists. In that we have a set of beliefs and we are trying, each in our own way, to move our society and governments to be more in sync with those beliefs.

An alternative belief system to mine doesn't automatically make someone evil, although it might suggest they are stupid, depending on their unwillingness to apply logic and reason and to consider alternate viable ideas. While I have come to consider both Hillary and Obama fundamental amoral and evil, that doesn't mean I think all liberals are. And there are plenty of evil conservatives. The Libs don't have a lock on that.

I also put a relatively low emphasis on specifically trying to convert King or Gnomon or anyone else here. But I do want to hear from them. I want to understand their position, flawed as it may be. I want to prod them into spilling the beans on how they came to have such hypocritical and wrong headed views. Because perhaps, somewhere in there, may be the seeds of an effective counter to their foolishness. Like a scientist looking for a cure to a devastating disease, we don't know yet where the cure will come from, but it WILL come from studying them. From learning from them. And learning to counter them. So far we have not.

If you think that with regard to first and second amendment rights, there are millions sitting on the fence, I would say you are wrong. My experience tells me there are people who belive in free speech, property rights and responsibility for self and there are those who don't. There is very little middle ground. So I don't believe there are untold millions sitting on the fence waiting to fall onto our side. There is us and them. It's a battle. We are losing, as you acknowledge, in the long term creeping liberalism of our society.

But at the same time, I don't slavish value everything the way it was. I don't think much of systemic discrimination against any racial group. Or women. Or gays. I'd like to see a true democratic/capitalist society and culture where we are judged for who we are and how we behave as individuals. I'd like one where what laws we have are applied equally to everyone.

So sometimes, while a certain subject may be for a time a hobby horse for the left, I may see true value in it for society as a whole. Despite who may be championing it at the moment.

Really THOUSANDS OF YEARS of gay marriage...and gay futtbucking as being normal.... outside of Greece and Sparta (which no longer exists)....exactly where would that be exactly? Non Islamic nations I mean.....we all know no boys butt (or sheeps or goats) is safe when a Muslim man is arround. Despite what their religion thinks about it


I seem to remember gays being used as furnace fuel in Germany not all that awefully long ago alongside Jews, Gypsies and the mentally deficient....with the help of other European nations.

Somehow the people I work for are able to block cookies for this site and started to a few weeks ago...last time it was just a corrupted cookie on ONE machine that kept me from logging in....

Does the same thing on three different machines now....so its not a fluke.

Keeps booting my out claiming I am usung the wrong password for the user ID....when I'm not....as it works fine from home where I am now.