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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1 |
If you want to win a bet I would put money on IZH. The .45-70 double is very light (also available in 7,62x63, 9,3x54R though those lack wonderful handling of the American big bore chambering). Gee, I wonder if it could stand up to Buffalo Bore loadings? If the answer is yes then it is truly remarkable thing.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
Apparently Remington had little concern about Decarbonized Steel Model 1889 "For Nitro Powder" 
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,880 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,880 Likes: 16 |
Just an observation but the Winchester Standard Ordnance Steel number looks like it's probably a yield strength value as it is close to the yield for mild steel..
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5 |
As I stated earlier, I believe that the numbers for the Winchester Standard Ordnance Steel is way too low. Winchester Ordnance Steel is equivalent to SAE 1018.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 388 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 388 Likes: 1 |
Don't forget sae 8620 steel if you are building a classic firearm now, very high strength with a tough core, produces very good colour case colours. I believe it was good enough for the m1 garand. Someone told me a lot of the old british heavy game rifles were made from steel that wasn't much better in its strength properties than modern mild steel. That could be wrong though.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 520
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 520 |
Actually the very high strength Maraging steels are not necessarily tough. Their high tensile strength can come at the cost of low fracture toughness, also known as critical stress intensity factor. Brittle fracture can then occur due to small initial flaws, cracks for example, at relatively low stress levels.
The tradeoff between fracture toughness and tensile strength is part of the design selection process for steel, as typically higher values for one are associated with lower values for the others.
Pressure vessel design text books sometimes use failures of Maraging steel pressure vessels as examples of the results of steel selection focusing on tensile strength, while neglecting fracture toughness required due to possible initial flaws.
When you start getting into the intricate details of design all sorts of possible problems must be addressed with any material. Surface flaws and/or cracks are potential issues with just about any material. I suppose someone could utilize Maraging steel for a pressure vessel to reduce weight or something, but considering the potential results I doubt that idea would get past an initial process safety review with us. I have found the maraging steels - not the very high tensile stuff, the 300+ kpsi stuff - to be both strong and pretty tough. Metallurgists sometimes don't know it all either. We had a round hollow piston that was hammering bagasse basically, and we were wearing them out wholesale. Talking with the equipment vendor, we decided to try making one out of hardened D2 tool steel. The metallurgists recommended against it because the tensile values are so erratic, but we were mainly concerned with compression and toughness, and even at the low end the tensile was more than adequate. The D2 outlasted everything else by 5 to one.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Steel similar to SAE 1018/1020 (about the lowest strength for steel) has been used successfully for firearms frames since "the beginning." The advantage of higher strength steel is that a lighter weight frame can have "the same" strength. However, since the modulus for steel (length of strain (movement) for a given load (tension/compression/shear) is basically uniform across the sweep of alloys (some stainless is a little lower). So, if one plans to take advantage of an alloy's higher strength, one must design for more relative movement among the lever work parts. Substituting a higher strength alloy will improve fatigue as long as "notch fracture" characteristics are properly allowed for. I'm not sure how gunmakers and designers view steel alloy selection, but it is for sure that they have a plethora, a pleather, I say, of choices in this day and age.
DDA
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,990 Likes: 302 |
I don't know how to frame this reply, but I don't think there was the same catalog of steels available to the designers of early shotguns as there are today.
The greatest designs maximized the value of what was available.
Sometimes I get the impression people forget that.
Last edited by ClapperZapper; 02/18/14 04:15 PM.
Out there doing it best I can.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
Just communicated with Adam at METL. No word yet on the Failure Analysis.
He thinks they can test tensile strength on a segment of barrel and I'll likely have him do that on the two barrels I have that can be destroyed.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5 |
CZ
Pre 1900 steel selection was pretty limited, 1018 may be at the bottom of the barrel today, but pre-1900 it was about as good as it got. Spring steels such as 1095 were pretty expensive to make.
It wasnt until the railroad, aviation and automotive industries forced the development of better and stronger steels. I believe it was General Motors which first developed SAE 4140 for use in car axles.
Today we all know the 41xx series steels as the most popular steel for barrels.
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