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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803 |
"I would be very happy if an engineer checked my math and numbers! "
I'm not sure what you are requesting? What math and numbers do you want checked?
As to veracity of numbers published by manufacturers, testing today is done to standardized methods and using calibrated NBS traceable equipment to assure uniformity.
I'm sure that early 20th century methodology was not as rigorous.-Dick
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
Dick: please click on the links in the original post. There are several charts listing metal strength. I HOPE I found the correct numbers for TENSILE strength. The conversion from long tons to psi is easy, but I tend to transpose numbers  ALSO - in those charts I did not find tensile strength of Bessemer steel Gotta be here somewhere http://books.google.com/books?id=yyMAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA321&lpg=PA321&dq I'm still searching for the tensile strength of Remington's Decarbonized Steel, which may only be another name for "Bessemer process homogenous wrought iron". There is a reference here to 70,000, but that seems high http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...&PHPSESSID=Also discussed here by Researcher and others http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2097
Last edited by Drew Hause; 02/16/14 07:44 PM. Reason: Edited for clariy
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
I guess marketing hyperbole is nothing new  http://books.google.com/books?id=1AZCDSxVe14C&pg=PA282&lpg “The tensile strength (of Bessemer steel) was declared to be 40 tons (89,600 pounds) per square inch.” The Creators of the Age of Steel, 2011 William Tulloch Jeans
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
I was asked about a reference for 'Winchester Proof Steel' http://books.google.com/books?id=9SvbdIv4OKYC&pg=PA57&lpgAlso found a statement that Winchester Ordnance Steel was 'Soft Bessemer' but no reference was given
Last edited by Drew Hause; 02/16/14 11:34 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Read Greener 'The Gun & its Development' pages 240-242, interesting summary of Birmingham Proof house trials of 36 different available barrel tubes.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
Thank you. The Birmingham Proof House Trial of 1891 is reviewed here http://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowled...TEK8OtPYVA/editUnfortunately, I have not found any measurement nor estimate of pressures obtained with the increasing proof charges
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
http://books.google.com/books?id=tOZZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA82&lpg Steel: Its History, Manufacture, Properties and Uses, 1880 James Stephen Jeans p. 82 Bessemer: 28 tons or 63,000 psi p. 189 Krupp: 70,000 – 80,000 psi p. 416 Hay Steel by A.T. Hay, Burlington, Iowa: 90,000-100,000 psi p. 521 Puddled Steel: 50 tons or 112,000 psi http://books.google.com/books?id=tOZZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA522&lpg American Board of Ordnance Russian Iron: 62,644 English Rolled Iron: 56,532 American hammered: 53,913 The Tensile Strength of Steel http://books.google.com/books?id=tOZZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA621&lpg No mention of studies on pattern welded gun barrels
Last edited by Drew Hause; 02/16/14 06:00 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Dang, Drew! Don't get a brain hemorrhage with all this research. Nice work. Do point out that we need be very careful of fatigue on gun parts. That means that peak stress needs to be about 40% of yield, not ultimate tensile, to have about infinite fatigue life. DDA
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 251
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 251 |
Actually the very high strength Maraging steels are not necessarily tough. Their high tensile strength can come at the cost of low fracture toughness, also known as critical stress intensity factor. Brittle fracture can then occur due to small initial flaws, cracks for example, at relatively low stress levels.
The tradeoff between fracture toughness and tensile strength is part of the design selection process for steel, as typically higher values for one are associated with lower values for the others.
Pressure vessel design text books sometimes use failures of Maraging steel pressure vessels as examples of the results of steel selection focusing on tensile strength, while neglecting fracture toughness required due to possible initial flaws.
Last edited by vangulil; 02/16/14 11:14 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,381 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,381 Likes: 106 |
This is what I found in "The Art of Shooting" by Charles Lancaster, 6th edition 1898:  Lord Walsingham on Damascus and Whitworth Barrels, interesting point of view! (or point of sound…) Any doubt, that he hasn't enough experience? ;-) Gunwolf Note the choke on those guns: NONE! " . . . with cylinder 30in barrels, not choked". Then go back to Dig's thread on Brit 2 1/2" "High Pheasant" loads. One ounce, cylinder bore, and Walsingham is killing with regularity. We are talking grouse there rather than pheasants, but I believe those are the same guns he used on driven pheasants as well. In his book on shotgunning, Brister talks about the great patterns you get with cylinder at 25 yards. Most driven birds won't be a lot higher than that, other than in the places they specialize in the very high birds. And to get them that high, you need hills with shooters in valleys below, and tall trees help a lot as well.
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