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#355182 01/28/14 02:30 AM
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I've been collecting the parts for a three barreled Martini project and only lack the .17 cal barrel and can get started. When the third barrel arrives the plan is to machine identical ovate profiles on the .17, the .223 cal and the .257 cal 1 3/8" round blanks. Integral bases for a Unertl Small Game 6x scope will also accommodated. The chamberings planned are .17 HMR, .22LR and .25-20 WCF.

Here is the take down Model 6 BSA Martini action, the second breach block and the fixture made for truing the face of the blocks.


Because the fore end is going to be so small, I was having trouble visualizing the figure in the fore end wood blanks so I turned them round. It was helpful being able to rotate them through 360 degrees and this is the outline of where I'm headed with that. On the left are three horn blanks that have been drilled with a 15mm Forstners bit and an attendant dowel will be turned on the front of the fore end blanks for fitting. The Hoffman fore end is shown in the middle.


Here is the butt blank. My Hoffman model (pictured in an earlier Michael Petrov post) has a petite butt so I think it is going to be possible to eliminate the sapwood evident in the image.


For anyone interested in a detailed commentary of this project it is being chronicled at: http://blog.alaskaarmsllc.com/ovate-barrels-miniature-martini-action/


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Great choice of calibers!

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Dennis:

Do you have a photo of the Hoffman Martini you could share?

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Dennis
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This looks like a great project. Please post progress photos and descriptions!

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Dennis:

Thanks.

Rem

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Dennis:

One more suggestion:

The small Martini frame will take a .30-30 sized cartridge, as long as pressures are kept in the .30-30 range. You could add one more barrel and extractor in .30-30, .32 Winchester, .25-35 or 7x30 Waters and have a first class whitetail rifle.

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Still waiting for the last barrel so I worked on the fore ends. I used cyanoacrylate to attach the horn. The second image shows the dowel detail that I turned on each of the blanks. Probably should have been longer but didn't want to run out of horn on the bottom. I shameless plan to copy the Hoffman so know what the final is going to look like.

For the sharp observers that noticed four fore ends that is because I'm finishing a Cadet in parallel with this project. It is going to be a 5.6x50R and the full octagon barrel got cut last year on a friends horizontal mill. Have a Zeiss Zieleins that has some kind of front attachment not unlike the Litscherts and appears to be about a 6x. I removed a AKAH ring/base set from a Hensoldt Klein Dialyt and that will attach to a rib on the barrel.

I just got two new finger planes and they are quite handy for shaping. One is a standard block plane type affair in miniature and the other is a scraper. Controlled material removal and the shortness allows wonderful curves to be applied to surfaces. They are shown between the fore ends.



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Dennis,
The 5.6x50R is a great choice too.
Mike

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Rem,
Our Sitka black-tailed deer are often accessorized with brown bears and all of your suggested chamberings might be a bit puny.

This is from Nov 1980 on Afognak Island and the cape gun is a 9.3x72R/16 ga. My back trail returning to camp had these tracks on mine. For perspective, the LOP of the gun is probably around 14".


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Dennis, I once had a fine stock with a bit of sap wood on the side of the butt next to the pad. I tried every stain I could with no help...then out of desperation I soaked it with somewhat boiled down coffee...was a perfect match for the rest of the stock and held up with finishing. Worth a try on some of the cut-of if you cannot get rid of all of it when shaping the stock.

By the way, I started the wx office on Kodiak in '73. Twelve years of great memories of Kodiak, Afognak, Woody, Raspberry and Long Islands.


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Sam,
Thanks for the suggestion on staining. I can't tell yet whether the sap wood is avoidable but should know after the through-bolt hole is in.

I've taken elk and deer on Raspberry, Afognak and Whale Islands and the hunting was always much more comfortable with a substantial rifle in hand. Also a bear on Fraser Lake in '83. Great country and envy your twelve years there. Always encounters with bears and the only one I didn't mind was the Fraser Lake hunt.


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I have to apologize for this primitive photo that goes back to the very beginning of digital photography. This is a genuine Hoffman Arms .22 LR Martini that I used to own.

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I got the through bolt hole drilled this week for the butt stock and it is now inletted.

The BSA Martinis have a thick and heavy bolt. I put a reducer into the action and then make a 1/4" bolt with a 1/2" head to replace the original. The hole through the butt stock is 5/16" and 5/8" and the double boring was done with drills made from drill rod. Here are the hardened drills I made.


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The action has been surface ground and taken to 220 on all major surfaces. The trigger guard/action housing has also been taken through 220.

The lever is forged to shape and inletted into the butt stock.



Got a Biesen uncheckered butt plate and a Fisher medium grip cap that will be installed after the first barrel is fitted and the final stock dimensions can be established.

I'm undecided about how to finish the end of the lever. The Hoffman has a simple forged curl but I got a late 20's to early 30's Griffin and Howe Martini recently that has a checkered and engraved cylinder installed at the end of the lever. A very nice treatment but the lever cannot be removed from the action housing without the retaining screw being removed and the cylinder lifted off. It is fitted very closely (pre EDM--how did they do that?) so I can't see precisely how it was done. I've also seen lever ends that are a graceful sweep rearward below the pistol grip then checkered.

Here is the G&H, the current project and the Hoffman for reference.


Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 03/06/14 05:24 PM. Reason: added image

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Not that my vote counts, but I love the stock and lever treatment on the Hoffman. To my eye, it is far superior to the G&H.

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The Hoffman has a grace that is hard to improve on

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The Hoffman has a grace that is hard to improve on

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Griffin. I'd love to see both the G&H and the Hoffman in side by side, full length pics as well as detail pics. A lot to be learned there.

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I vote for the G&H treatment, perhaps hollowed out and a walnut filler added?

As an aside, has anyone here done (or seen one done) a conversion built on a Model 15 BSA Martini? The rear sight dovetail incorporated into the rear of the receiver would be a stumbling block in the quest to make an elegant arm out of it, to my way of thinking. (Or perhaps incorporating the original P-H sight into the final design?) I have one of these that I've been casting a covetous eye on in regards to a sporter similar to the one taking shape on this thread.

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The project is proceeding nicely. Here is a synopsis of problems solved.

Centerfire breach block
The striker nut retaining screw on the rimfire block had been broken off and had to be removed. I drilled the screw stub with a twist drill very near the minor diameter of the screw and then attempted to tap it with a 2-56 tap with the broken screw remnants in place. I broke the tap off in the hole and Morris had to burn the tap out using EDM. The threads were then carefully chased with a bottom 2-56 tap.

The first step in converting the rimfire block to centerfire was to thread the firing pin hole in the breach face with a 4-40 tap. A screw was turned in until it reached the bottom of the firing pin hole channel. The protruding part of the screw was then TIG welded around its juncture with the breach face. A surface grinder brought the weld level with the face.


The rimfire pin was ground from the striker.

The centerfire pin center was located on the breach face and drilled with a 1/16" twist drill through the face with the striker in place. This provided a secure location to solder a new firing pin in place in the striker.

Morris turned the four barrel blanks round, established a precise common OAL for the barrel set, threaded and chambered each and then crowned them.





Each barrel was test fired to ensure primer detonation. Using a common rimfire block without making adjustment for the slight size difference in the .17 HMR and the .22LR didn't matter.



Martini lever movement has two positions. The first "nearly opened" position is maintained by striker spring tension. If the lever is pressed forward from this position the block under striker tension then allows the insertion or removal of a case from the chamber. The modified rimfire block would not lower sufficiently to allow the insertion and removal of the 5.6x50R or the .25-20 WCF rounds. The bottom of the block had to have metal removed to allow the block to drop further.
[img]http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/...0bd92.jpg[/img]
The next step will be to manufacture a common takedown taper pin that will work with all four barrels. Morris plans to create the taper cut on the thread bottom for each of the barrels with EDM. He has the fixtures designed, built and hardened that will hold each barrel while it is profiled on the HAAS CNC.
[img]http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/...25793.jpg[/img]

Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 04/25/14 04:42 PM.

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Here are the last two images that don't appear to be visible in the original post.



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Morris completed the final preparation on the barrels with the setup to cut the groove for the takedown cross pin. Each barrel had to be screwed into the action with equal force, then moved to the EDM and indexed. With the 4 tapered electrode mounted the action was removed and the cut was made to proper depth. For those interested in the minutiae the full story is at: http://blog.alaskaarmsllc.com/ovate-barrels-part-4/

For those just interested in the results here is what the EDM cut looks like on the first barrel. The barrel work is simply top notch with precise facing and threading evident in this image. The chambers too, are top notch.


A lengthy description of the action and barrel preparation briefly posted here previously is found at:
http://blog.alaskaarmsllc.com/ovate-barrels-part-3-installing-chambering-barrels/

Morris has finished production of the CNC fixtures, they are ground, and the first profiling run should occur in the next several weeks.


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Morris has completed the CNC run of all four barrels for this project. The last step for the barrels is the final polishing. Here is what the MasterCam solid looks like and some images of the actual barrels follow that.






These four barrels were intended to proof the fixtures that Morris has designed and created as well as test the feasibility of doing complex barrel contours using CNC. Morris' extraordinary machining skills and barrel artistry have not disappointed. This is simply top notch work that can be extended to the gun making trade.

Each of the barrels has a different sight configuration. The 5.6x50R will have a Fecker 10x scope as the primary sight. A longitudinal front sight dovetail is planned to support a pop-up front blade. Between the scope bases is a flat for cutting a cross dovetail for a standing rear blade.

The .17 HMR only has scope bases and a 6x Unertl Small Game scope will be affixed.

Although the .25-20 WCF and the .22 LR have scope bases they will use sights as the primary system. The .25-20 will have a Beech type front sight and a standing rear blade. The .22 LR will have a BSA #8 peep sight mounted on the rear of the action with a quick detach system and will have a Parker Hale #2 globe front.

I plan to build a cabinet for the rifle and its components and have a rough drawing that will get refined.

Within a week I hope to have a detailed description of the fixtures, the CNC setup and staged images of mill progress on the barrels posted to Morris' blog for anyone that is interested in more details of this project.
Dennis


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Dennis,
This is very impressive(even astounding) work.Please pass this to Morris.
Mike

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Not only are the barrels fantastic, but the stock blank is, too!

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Mike,
Morris appreciates the feedback on the barrels. Something like this would look good on a reproduction miniature Henry chambered for a rook and rabbit cartridge.
Dennis


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Gee Dennis, now all you need is a pattern gun wink


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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Terry,
Glad you like the barrels and the wood.

I took the comb of the blank down to about a half inch of its final height last week and was surprised to see what is emerging. The top of the bases on the barrels are .575" above bore so the open sights will have to be positioned high enough to see over these. As every, the stock configuration has some level of compromise when both a scope and iron sights need to be accommodated.

Working with four cartridges with quite different ballistics and the same butt stock might be trickier than I'd imagined. I have one specific load for each of the cartridges in mind and hope to test fire each of the barrels with sights soon.
Dennis


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I have always enjoyed seeing orate barrels on Rook Rifles and commercial Martinis. So many rook rifles I have found have been bored out to .410. Lining an ovate barrel, especially if it was reamed off center, is challenging. What you and Morris offer is an incredible opportunity for custom rifles and restoration.

With machinists like Steve Earle producing Daniel Fraser rifle actions, and I hope someone comes up with a modern Farquharson action, this style of barrel would be perfect.

Nice work Dennis !

... Joe

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I have all of the barrels polished but after the Scotchbrite I found some streaks that have to come out. Additionally, there is some 400 stone work around the scope bases that is needed. Diemaker's stones have been a boon to me for this work. They break down readily but will aggressively remove metal as contours emerge as the machine marks disappear.

Progress has continued with other parts of the project too. The takedown pin has been ground and it indexes to the same point of rotation with each of the four barrels installed. A lever will need to be designed and welded on and then this part of the project will be done. A spare pin has been ground and fitted and a lever will be welded to it also.


Morris milled the forearm escutcheons today. They mirror the profile of the front scope base, are .200" thick and are set up for a #10 screw diameter using a 5/16" head. The have a 2 1/2 degree draft to ease tight inletting. I need four but as you can see now have some spares. I used a profile like this on another Martini project and liked the look. They are big enough to support an engraved border and some small scroll both front and back of the screw.



I'll start inletting forearms this week. Because of the close tolerances of the barrels a small stock duplicator would be the cat's meow as I would only have to do one and scrape the others in. Oh, well.
Dennis

Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 12/06/14 11:39 PM.

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Dennis, please check your PM's.

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All four of the forearms are inletted and will only require about .010" scrape in when the escutcheons are installed.

Between the forearms are two gage pins. Until about a year ago I didn't know what a gage pin was but having watched Morris use them constantly I bought .061-.250 and .250-.500 sets. The two pins in the photo were used to determine when I had reached the half barrel diameter at the front and at the rear. I measured the barrel diameters at the front and back locations of the forearm, divided by two and chose the respective pins. These were kept at hand as I inletted and were easy visual references for progress. The top surface of the forearms were sanded dead flat and with the pin in the barrel channel a straight edge laid across the pin it was possible to see precisely how far I needed to go. It also allowed me to make adjustments on wood removal fore and aft so that I didn't have one end going down faster than the other.

Considerable wood needs to be removed from each of the forearms to reach the final dimensions and I can't yet tell just what figure will survive but it appears that there will be something left of interest in each.

Dennis

Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 12/12/14 07:25 PM.

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Dennis, sent you an email.

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With the escutcheons made and the forearms inletted the next step would be drilling and tapping the forearm barrel lug and then the forearm retaining screw hole.

A holding fixture was needed and Morris used an old set of Kurt vise jaws. The jaws were first installed on the vise, surfaced, separated by spacer blocks and then dovetail cut on each face. This would provide a very precise method of holding the barrels in place by inverting the barrel and using the integral scope bases secured in the newly made fixture.


I didn't want to use a #10 drill for the wood because the fit with a #10 screw shank would be very tight and a small amount of draft was needed. I do some cabinet making also and found a 5mm wood bit in a drawer that was perfect for the job.


Each barrel was precisely positioned at the center of the forearm barrel lug and the sequence of drilling the lug, tapping it, installing the wood bit and setting the depth to the dead bottom of the lug (the top surface with the barrel inverted), placing the forearm in position and, finally, drilling the wood.

Morris sent #10 cap screws home with me for the final inletting of the forearms.
Dennis


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Thanks for letting us see his "set up".
Mike

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Mike,
I hope this thread is informational as well as entertaining.

While inletting the escutcheons I found a serious mistake that I had made when inletting the forearms that required a lot of effort to correct. Fortunately I had left enough wood to recover. Not having a professional gunmaker status to look after I probably should write that up too but don't know if there is any value to others.
Dennis


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Originally Posted By: Dennis Daigger
Mike,
I hope this thread is informational as well as entertaining.

While inletting the escutcheons I found a serious mistake that I had made when inletting the forearms that required a lot of effort to correct. Fortunately I had left enough wood to recover. Not having a professional gunmaker status to look after I probably should write that up too but don't know if there is any value to others.
Dennis


I for one am certainly enjoying and learning from your progress reports, and very much hope you continue. Also eagerly await the photographs of the finished rifle.

Thanks much,

John Holliger

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Being able to id and correct mistakes is a sign of a good craftsman.This means you know what good work is.
Mike

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The part of gunmaking that I enjoy the most is the anarchy of setting to rough shaped wood with tools and creating form. I got the escutcheons in Monday, the Biesen buttplate inletted Tuesday and one of the forearms and the buttstock to near final form yesterday.

I put panels on the forearm and a cheek piece on the buttstock contrary to the Hoffman that inspired this project.




The file in the photo is a Grobet half round Vulcanite and is simply the most useful file I have every used on wood. It is tapered on both the fine and course side and this allows shaping of a wide range of curve radii as well as other shapes. It is aggressive and cuts smoothly. I keep a new spare at hand and it came out yesterday just for this work.

I am using my Canon G10 for the photography that I have been posting but am fast approaching the time when I need to have quality photos. Michael Petrov gave me his photo setup when he found that his time was very limited. Unfortunately, he passed away before I got a tutorial. It is an incandescent system and I'm hoping to use light boxes with speed lights instead. His camera is a Nikon 70S and I am using my Canon 550EX and 420EX flashes in 12"x48" light boxes. I haven't figured out how to disable the camera's pre flash feature so have a 3 second delay between the master and slave flashes. This works fine with shutter speeds longer than 3 seconds but this is not how I want the system to work. If anyone has experience that they would share about using light boxes and flashes for gun photography I'd be grateful.
Dennis


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Dennis ...

I enjoyed every update to this incredible rifle. You've incorporated a number of custom features that you rarely see nowadays such as the ovate barrels, integral scope bases, etc.

I wish I had your patience and skill in metal and wood.

... Joe

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What Joe said.
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The stock work is far enough down the road now with all of the forearms and the buttstock close to the final dimensions that I can now concentrate on getting the chest and case materials together, determining the dimensions and creating a final design.

I got the last of the wood today. These will be the side panels for the chest.


I have a very nice 30's Ambercrombie and Fitch case that came with a gun that I purchased some time ago and dimensionally it is what I will use. It is just roomy enough at 30x9 1/4x3 to accommodate one of the barrel sets, the action/buttstock, one of the scopes and an ammunition block. I have a very nice board of Honduran mahogany that is 8' long, 16" wide and 3/4" thick and I should be able to get the entire case from it.

This case will slide into a compartment at the base of the chest. This is the plan; Two side-by-side drawers will be above the case compartment and finally above the drawers will be a compartment with a lid where the four barrel sets and the action/buttstock will reside. The purpose of the case is a travel vessel for one of the rifle configurations.

The left drawer will be wider to accommodate the two scopes, four ammunition blocks and additional gun parts. The right drawer will house the .25-20 WCF loading tools.

Like a Gerstner chest, a panel will shutter the drawers and the lower case compartment.

I have nearly 30 board feet of black walnut on hand that will be used for the chest.

I have no experience with lining a gun case or a chest so that needs to be figured out too.

Here are some images of things that have to be housed in the chest somewhere. I'll describe the reloading tools later. The last of the hardware is in transit from Lee Valley. Oh for the old days of Garrett Wade's huge high quality hardware inventory.


And some of the hardware that I already had on hand.


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This week I did the final shaping of each forearm and they are ready for the final sanding as soon as the screws are slotted and the heads can be brought flush with the exposed escutcheon surface.

Today the screws got slotted to properly index and the extractor cuts got done.
This is the setup using Morris' dovetailed jaw fixture which gripped the barrels in a perfectly aligned position.

Using a 1/8" end mill an indexing longitudinal cut was made so that each screw could be locked in a collet for slotting.

The screws were slightly under-indexed to ensure no over rotation when the screws are pulled down into the escutcheon with a bit.

The saw is .023" wide which will give me a screw slot that allows use of a thin bit.

All of the forearms were removed and one by one the barrels were again installed in the dovetail fixture by the scope bases.

The top edge of this BSA Martini extractor cut is .032" below bore center and is tilted to the 6 o'clock position by 6 degrees. The mill head was tilted appropriately and cut with an end mill to the depth that would allow the original extractor numbered to the action to lie flush with the breach of the barrel.

Here is the completed cut.


Morris' metal work is simply incredible.

I finished shaping the lever, got it inletted, got a small Fisher steel grip cap installed and a lot more wood removed. I need to bring the comb height down about 3/16" to 1/4" and then the final shaping of the nose and cheek pad can be done. The wonderful photos on this website of Dubiel rifles gave me ideas about a pad shape and although an interpretation, it will be a shape I've never used on a stock. I don't know how all these photos will survive on this forum with the Photobucket dependencies but hope someone is paying attention to those details.

The lever end treatment has been finalized and I need to get a piece of round stock welded on. A Martini sold at Julia some time ago provided the inspiration for the design.

The action, barrels, escutcheons, butt plate, grip cap, sights and lever are scheduled to go to the engraver in February.

We are having historic high temperatures and hope to get outside and do some thickness planing of the mahoghany case pieces. I'd like to do blind dovetails on the top and bottom of the case and need to plan that out with everything at 5/8" thickness. I have all of the hardware now except some kind of lock for the case. All of the chest hardware is now here and have baize samples coming from England.

I ordered USA made brad point bits for the ammo blocks and the mould handles and three of the six have points off center or warped shafts. They have to go back as a firmly held wood block with closely spaced holes in a 5x10 pattern cut with wobbly bits will have off center holes that will be visible.
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Morris machined a fixture to position the barrels with the 3 o'clock position up in the EDM and machined graphite electrodes to duplicate the profile of the Unertl and Fecker scope ring retaining screws. Each barrel was then clamped in the fixture and the detent was machined in the rear and front base.

Here is a series of photos documenting this process.




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Shortly after I got the Hoffman Martini some years back I tried Remington jacketed bullet .25-20 WCF ammo in it and the results were less than exciting. When I talked to Michael Petrov about this he gave me some 87 grain bullets from a Lyman 257420 (a gas checked bullet) mould and I never got around to trying them. When looking for loads, however, I found some extraordinary writing by Glen Fryxell on shooting cast bullets in this cartridge. It is posted on The Los Angeles Silhouette Club website at http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB25-20Win.htm and for anyone wanting to load for this cartridge it is a very good read and source of information.

When a .25-20 WCF chambering became a part of this Martini project I started looking for an Ideal 257283 mould based on Glens results with this bullet and eventually found one on eBay. This is the plain based earlier version of Petrovs 257420 mould. This mould is part of the accessories that will be included in the project chest.

I got a small Ideal mould handle and took the wood off. Woodcraft had a sale on its Gaboon ebony and I got a 12 section of 1 1/2 square stock. It came totally encased in thick paraffin which set off a flashing yellow light in my head and after turning the stock round it was apparent that this was wet wood. Grasping the round stock sans paraffin I could feel wetness. Two days later it developed a lot of narrow checks which continued to enlarge for about a week. Surprisingly, two months later most of them had closed significantly and this week I turned two 6 handles, drilled and fitted them to the handles. The final diameter is around .860 and this is about the maximum diameter that the small handles will accommodate.

Here again is the photo of the parts including the NOE mould discussed later.


I turned ferrules from 1018 steel and nitre blued them. This is the parts before assembly.


Glen Fryxells preferred load for the 257283 bullet is 8 grains of 4227 and I made a measure for this capacity. It is brass, has an ebony handle and a 1018 nitre blued ferrule.

With the original Lyman 310 .25-20 Repeater tools, this completes all of the reloading accessories for the project.




A quick side note on 25 caliber lead bullets. Al Nelson of NOE moulds duplicated the 257283 mould profile for me and it is now available from him. I got a double cavity brass mould from him that I originally intended to be the mould for this project but it is too large by comparison to the original Ideal for the chest. The NOE mould casts very consistent and clean bullets and is of the highest quality and will be used for bullet production. The Ideal with the ebony handles will be reserved for the chest.

Footnote: The bore of the Hoffman was noticeably dirty and after a thorough cleaning is now bright and shiny and my expectations remain high for it.


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Morris finished all of the sight parts and the barrels came back to me this morning. Here is a teaser for the sights and I'll get a full description done soon with the details. Again, Morris has done an extraordinary job of shaping bases to mount MVA combination sights as well as cut a longitudinal dovetail on the Parker Hale globe sight.

With the barrels back I could finish shaping the forearms and getting them sanded and it has taken much of the day to do this. But they are done and ready to raise the grain in preparation of the first finish.

My final design is a bit larger than the Hoffman but not much. It feels a bit better in my hand with a little more bulk.


Dennis


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Superior work, write up & pictures. What a great discussion thread!


Hunt with vintage classics.
The right of the people to keep & bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Glad this is of interest to you fla3006.

The front sights are now done. The .22LR has a modified AGA Model 2 globe sight installed and the .22LR and 5.6x50R have the actual blade part of MVA combination sights installed.

Originally, the plan was to make some small bases that had a cross dovetail for mounting the MVA combo sights but Morris came up with a much better idea and created bases that would incorporate the MVA system using the 2-56 screws for mounting. Here is the base.


The AGA globe was modified by milling the integral dovetail off and then cutting the requisite longitudinal dovetail for mounting on the barrel. This was done on the CNC as were the MVA bases.

Here are some images of the end results.




And a quick one of my fan club.

Dennis


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Nice work by you and Morris. I like the engineering for the front sights. Other than met al and wood finishing, what's left?

... Joe

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Joe,
The lever is off having the 'knob' welded on. When it gets back and the welds are contoured the last bit of shaping of the lever to the grip area of the stock can be done.

There are two open sight sets that need to be shot in. I want to use 60 grain bullets in the 5.6 and haven't got anything loaded yet. The .25-20 WCF loads are ready so nothing needed there regarding reloading. Since there is lot of adjustability in the BSA 8 peep sight (the .22LR barrel) I think I can get the Federal Premium UltraMatch that I found locally to work fine. Since this sight folds down I will need to get this barrel properly shot in as the elevation knob extension will determine the final location of the butt stock nose (it needs to clear it) and then the final shaping of the butt stock can be done. My preferred .22LR ammo would have been the Remington standard velocity but it is simply not available. The UltraMatch was $185 for a brick.

Too, there is a lot of cabinet work that hasn't really been started yet and with the sub-zero temps there will be no outdoor work done on that yet.

Next up, bluing the BSA peep. I have it disassembled and polished and again the Gesswein die maker's stones were simply indispensable. Using abrasive papers would have taken a very long time by comparison and the results would have been inferior.
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Excepting a bit of polishing, the metal work for the project is done. Here is the post for the lever work and Ill do a separate post for the extractors.

After the lever was shaped and inletted into the buttstock, it was cut off at a predetermined length and the end was surface ground to have a rectangle with parallel and perpendicular sides. A graphite electrode was then shaped to duplicate this rectangular profile.

I had previously turned a piece of 1018 steel to a 5/8 diameter forming a cylinder. This was then milled with the EDM so that it would fit snuggly onto the lever. When fully inserted the end of the lever was just short of reaching through the cylinder. The lever and cylinder where sent off to be TIG welded so that I would have filets closing the junction of the cylinder with the lever.








The welds were then contoured to achieve the final desired profile. Id like to drill through the cylinder and put ebony or horn plugs in. Not sure at this time whether this will be done.



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The extractors presented a major challenge. Although desirable, it simply didnt seem feasible to have a single extractor because of the considerable difference in diameters of the .22 LR to the 5.6x50R. Miniature Martini extractors are very difficult to come by and are expensive when you can find them.

Early on Morris suggested making them and when we got to the point where this was the last thing remaining to be done I gave in.

I have five original extractors for Morris to work from and he developed a Master Cam solid and created perfect extractors with the HAAS.



First, a 1018 bar was milled to the side profile of the extractor. This was then mounted in a vise and milled as shown in the photos.




A slight lip remained on the lower part of the extractor after shaping with the mill and this was rough ground off. Each extractor was then secured in a tool makers vise on a sine plate and the face of the extractor was milled flat and the lip, which was above the final surface, was removed.




Two original extractors are in the foreground.

The sine plate was needed because the front and back of the Martini extractor are not parallel. For reference the rear surface of the extractor is perpendicular to the axis of the bore.

Now I needed to hand fit each of the extractors. Since Morris had meticulously ensured that the standing part of the extractor was precisely the same thickness as the original Model 6 extractor, I would be removing metal from the bevel of the breach end of the barrel for the fitting.

The extractors were intentionally left high on the operative ear so the first step was to reduce the height to just clear the beveled mill cut done some time ago on the breach end of each barrel. Dykem was used to spot each extractors height in to its barrel before any metal was removed from the barrel. After the correct height was achieved, Prussian blue was used to move the extractor into its correct depth of rotation by carefully removing metal from the barrel.

This was tedious and time intensive. A gauge pin that fitted tightly into the rear of the chamber was brushed with Prussian blue and the extractor was rotated forward. Shows were removed and eventually the chamber portion of the extractor fitting was done.


A completed breach end after final extractor fitting.


The final step would be cutting the extractor rim. Morris arguments won out and EDM milling was used.

EDM dial in for extractor rim cut.

Finally, I stamped each extractor to make identification easy. Here are the finished extractors.


I have the final finish built up on all forearms and the buttstock and the pores are filled. I will work on the sand out next.
Dennis


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Looks like too many photos in the last post so here is the one that got dropped.


Morris produces the finest machinist work I have personally seen. The surfaces you see here are off the HAAS and no polishing was needed. This comes from a wonderful merging of machinist abilities, computer technology and visualization of tool paths relative to the desired outcome.
Dennis


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Dennis,
I share your opinion.
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I finished some of the accessories last week after installing DROs on my mini-mill. Having a no-brainer indexing system in place made precision drilling of the four ammo blocks near fool proof. Using brad pointed wood twist drills, the 3"x5" cherry blocks were drilled. A ball end mill was used to contour the top edge and then the blocks were painted on all but the top surfaces. The top was finished with tung oil and the cove was painted yellow to coordinate with the Hainsworth calvary yellow wool cloth that will be used to line the chest and case.




This completes all of the accessories that will be in the chest.
Dennis


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Finished the stock work today and the buttstock and forearms are checker ready. All of the metal work is done excepting the lever. It had two small welding voids and they are being filled. I expect the metal to go to the engraver late next week.





Dennis


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Whoa! Absolutely beautiful! The Circassian buttstock and forends have a great pattern with strong mineral lines. ... that's my kind of stock! Very nice work Dennis!

I look forward to every update of this thread ...
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Joe,
Might be a surprise, this is Calfornia thin shelled walnut. A sleeper I think.
Dennis


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Very fine wood working & finishing, Dennis.

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Steven,
Thanks for your critique, I really appreciate it.


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The entire project has been pretty near spectacular. Morris' machining skills are exemplary and the whole works has come together as one of the most complete and complicated custom projects in my experience
Congrats to you both!

Last edited by SDH-MT; 05/28/15 02:09 AM. Reason: edit
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The trunk carcase is done but for the latches. Here are some images of it.






Still haven't located high quality brass latches with or without locks. I have a large piece of brass and may have to make them.
Dennis

Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 06/29/15 01:00 AM. Reason: add image

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Forgot to mention that final dimensions of the trunk are 28 1/2 x 9 1/2 x 3 1/2. With this completed I can start working on the chest, cutting the mortise and tenons of the stiles and rails and cutting the grooves for the side panels.

I do all my cabinetry outside and we are having nice weather so need to keep moving on this. Our summer (many sequential days of rain) is due any time.
Dennis


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Looks very pleasing from here.
Good luck on the locks/latches, it deserves some fine quality hardware.

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Dennis, we had this conversation. With the evidence of your care and attention to detail, your thorough ability to execute your thoughts into completion in wood... Consider using your talent to help educate the up and coming generations via the ACGG. Our Education Team is in a building mode again. But first you need some signatures and some encouragement...consider this post as just that. This project from a block satisfies one requirement for Stockmaker catagory. Checkering by you is required. You still have time to apply this year.....if one cares to.


Dennis Earl Smith/Benefactor Life NRA, ACGG Professional member
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Thanks, Dennis. I appreciate the comments and support.
Dennis


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I've run out of excuses. Garden is done. Fish are done. Yard is ready for winter and finally back to working on the project.

Got the handle for the gun trunk done today. Small amount of polishing yet but otherwise ready to install on the trunk. Ebony handle and toggle links, tool steel insets in the toggles, brass otherwise. Frustrating finding hardware for projects like this so made much of it. I'm using Brusso latches and they work quite nicely. Here are images of the handle. Will follow up with images of the other hardware. Now finish can be applied to the trunk.



Aspiring to the Chinese adage that 'everything has its time', the checkering urge is coming on.
Dennis

Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 10/16/15 08:49 PM.

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Except for some minor touch ups of finish, the trunk is ready for partitions and lining.










Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 12/16/15 08:33 PM.

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Oh yeah! that is some great work!


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Thanks, Brent.


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Dennis, may I ask where you sourced those latches? That is some handsome case work!

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Thanks, Gary. The latches are Brusso and here is a link to them at their website.
http://www.brusso.com/jb-828/


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Thank you. Exactly what I need for a current project.

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Ready for case coloring.








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I really like the scroll. Perfect!

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And the barrels ready for bluing.



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I've got a couple of Martinis, one a .22 and the other a .310 Cadet.

I've thought of rebarreling the Cadet, but it's in pretty good shape as is and I can't bring myself to do it. If I had 1/10th the skill on display here, I'd be shooting a .222 Cadet.

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Engraver?

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Jim White, Wasilla, AK master engraver


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Very, very nice Dennis! I always enjoy seeing updates to this incredible rifle set. Artistry in metal, wood and now engraving. Absolutely beautiful ...

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I thought these were wonderful, before the engraving, now, WOW!
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Very nicely done and a fitting conclusion to an ultra sophisticated project.

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Breech blocks done.


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I finished the chest carcass and have all of the hardware installed. Most everything associated with hardware for the front panel had to be made but went fairly smoothly. The carcass is ready for glue up. We are cold and have had no precipitation for March to date so our relative humidity is quite low. I am using hide glue for the chest and the glue becomes tacky quickly. I will need to enlist aid for this as there is a lot to line up before clamping as well as the glue clean up after clamping. Then just the grunt work of sanding and staining. I won't apply finish until everything is done.

I need to make the lid and the two trays yet. The yellow cedar that I used on the front panel developed a significant check that is visible. I had planned to use other cedar boards for the top surface as well as the tray sides and back. I'm rethinking that as all of my boards are sequentially sawn from the same log and a minute flaw is visible that may too check.

I got the action and other parts back from case coloring and after long deliberation dulled the action coloring to a 'worn' look. The original plan was to French grey the action but I think the worn look is a better touch. The engraving is nicely visible now and thanks to Steven Dodd Hughes for the suggestion and the advice for getting this done. The action/trigger guard has engraving too and I need to decide whether that will also be dulled. The lever I will probably leave as is.

[/URL]





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Forgot the image with the gun trunk in the lower space.


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Looks a lot like the Gerstner Tool Chest that's been on my workbench for four decades. Very nicely done!
Glad the CCH/FG worked out...

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Dennis, Could we see some pictures of your receiver. I would like to see the effect of toning down the case color. Also, how and who did the bluing on your breech blocks? Thanks

Last edited by Bob Saathoff; 03/28/17 01:06 PM.
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Steven--yes, shamelessly Gerstner but in a Shaker motif. I'll be adding some scratch beading for some accenting.

Bob--photos attached which are unedited. I am changing over to a mirrorless camera setup and haven't completely got it dialed in with the strobes but these should give you an idea. The bottom photos of the rifle will give you an idea what the case colors looked like from Turnbull.

I blued the breach blocks; just simple nitre bluing.







Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 03/29/17 01:31 AM. Reason: image edits

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Beautiful workmanship. The treatment of the two little panels on the forend is wonderful. I love the way they come out a bit from the receiver rather than just following the line of it.

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Thanks, Paul. I'm working on a .25-35 Win Martini now. See your caliber comment at the start of this thread.


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Dennis,

I just found this after being nudged along by my friend, Ed Lundberg.

This is wonderful work. I am looking forward to seeing the project completed.

Dick Wright


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Thanks, Dick.

Believe me when I say I'm ready to see the project completed too!


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Fantastic work and project Dennis,enjoy the hell out of it!

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A longtime member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild (ACGG), M. Huey, makes cases like yours. When done, he makes a canvas case to protect the wood. I looks great but also serves to protect the wood which, in your case, is art. Have you thought about doing that?

I will follow this closely... I am completing a project gun and have been thinking about a case like yours. I want to see how you make the partitions and cover the inside.

I've thought about making a rifle based on a Martini. It's extremely difficult to get the graceful lines that you can with other actions. What you've done is the best I have ever seen.

Love the little Unertl. I have one.


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Originally Posted By: SDH-MT
Engraver?


Steve,

Have you ever done a Martini? If so, any pictures?

Thanks,

Dick


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If you are asking me, nope, never nor any inclination.

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I was asking you. I'd love to take your seminar... I can't. Wish I could.

Thanks,

Dick


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me too!

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Ready for fitting.








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Dennis,

I can't believe I never heard of you till I came across this thread. Are you a gunsmith, machinist, guild member, ???????

Anytime I do something well (rarely) and get a fat head, I now look at this thread to put things in perspective. This is the most extensive project I've ever seen and your workmanship and taste are impeccable.

Thank you very much for sharing with us.

Dick


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Thanks, Dick. I think there are a number of amateurs out that are doing work like mine that simply don't expose their work on forums like this.


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Barrel tray is done.

Test




Last edited by Dave Weber; 12/12/17 08:33 PM.

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Dennis,

I miss updates on this thread. It seems Photbucket screwed up your pictures just like they did mine. I switched to Imgur and find it more user friendly.

Looking forward to more progress on your project.


Last edited by Dick Wright; 08/24/17 05:15 AM.

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Dick,
Pretty frustrating, really. It is going to take a long time to load and link my many Martini project photos using a new site and I think it would simply be a temporary respite. Eventually Imgur will do the same thing that Photobucket did. The real solution is for the images to be hosted on this forum's site and I can't imagine what a headache that would be for the host. I would pay a reasonable subscription fee for access to this site if it had photo hosting.

The real tragedy of all of this is the historic loss of the many photo contributions by people like Petrov and many, many others. Even if Petrov's images were available, it would be a Herculean effort to modify all of the posts with new photo links. Having checked, no one knows his password for the PB account so it really doesn't matter.

I can't tell you how many times I have referenced images on this site that simply aren't available anywhere else. They are the most focused and invaluable reference that I know of for the historic and classical guns I'm interested in.


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Yes Dennis it is painful. I have tried, over the years, to always save a copy of the pictures posted here and other sites that interested me. So, if you haven't done this in the past you may want to consider doing so going forward.
On that same vain if there is a picture you can remember, but can't find it anymore, I may have it, please send me a PM and if I have it I can share back.

With regards to Photobucket and other sites I fully agree with your assessment.
IMO, what happened at Photobucket is typical of the failure of their management to first keep their eye on the business model and second their failure to sell the advertisement dollars needed to stay in business. Poor quality employees is that issue. When those advertisement dollar dry up instead of managing costs, firing the non-productive employees, they look for new revenue streams which in this case is the people using their site for storage which is the root purpose of the site which in turn generates outside advertisement revenue. I predict they will go belly up in the near future.....kind of sounds just like our government doesn't it. LOL

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I don't understand... My Mac is 2-1/2 years old and I have downloaded a ton of pics on it... even downloads off my trail cam with a gazillion deer, etc, pics. The computer says I have only used about 10% of my available storage. I only loaded pics on Photobucket that I wanted to publish one way or another which was quite a few. Still, I haven't lost any... I just can't get at the ones in PB anymore and, this really pisses me off... you can't see the ones that have been published. Still, I haven't lost any... they are all in the Mac.

Photobucket either decided they needed more revenue to keep going or they just got greedy. Whoever made the decision to go from free to $400.00 probably will put them out of business.

Imgur, so far, has been both more dependable and more user friendly. Photobucket would have to pay me to get me back... probably $400.00.

Last edited by Dick Wright; 08/27/17 06:13 AM.

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Another one done.


Last edited by Dennis Daigger; 12/12/17 12:52 PM.

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I tried to open the last pic and it never did open. I've spent a lot of time over the last three years documenting three project guns that I made on several sites. All are lost. I switched to Imgur and it works well. I did go back and post Imgur pics of the finished projects at the end of my threads. PB will not be forgiven for the time, now wasted, that I spent.


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Try again... O.K. this is a better pic of my .222 project. Easy to do with Imgur.

Last edited by Dick Wright; 12/06/17 09:54 AM.

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Dennis try to fix your pix now...I think you will be able to.


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