doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com remodeling a Winchester 61

Yes, I owe you -if not an apology, then, as George Patton said (at Ike's orders) an "explanation"- But first, I have shot many many red and some grey fox over the past 30 some years or more- and how a fox could manage to get his "Kopf upf sind azle" as you suggested is a real puzzlement to me- the ain't designed for that, dead or alive--and most Foxes, whether Dog or Vixen, are mainly tail section-= part of their Winter warmth pattern. And by the by, I have the 1920's Lynn Bogue Hunt poster for Ithaca Guns, showing a red fox flushing a Rooster pheasant from a snowdrift- great stuff

There is, of course, another possible play on your "fox with his head up his/her ass" but as we got sidetracked with our spelling bee-pissing contest (my bad)lets us also consider the late Redd Foxx- from Sanford and Son TV sit-com-- a perfect picture of a Foxx with his haid upside his ass indeed.

Moving right along, I apologize for Not knowing that you are indeed on the masthead with regular articles in Sports Afield- I do not subscribe, I just buy the dated issues at Barnes & Noble that have articles that interest me- like Harry Selby's Rigby .416 BA rifle- and Colonel Boddington's (USMC Ret'd) fine articles on hunting in Africa and the Mid-East. Sorry I miss-spelled John Barsness- how do you properly pronounce his surname please? It is like " The Amish built first-rate BARNS?"

The main reason I went off on you, which is my fault, is I read more into your comment about "I have to side with eightbore on this" regarding his again doubting my veracity in an internet posting, as he has done on my "behalf" many times before this contretemps we are now discussing- hence my comment about "Your being the friend of my enemy also makes you my enemy"; that was a bit "over the top" and for that I apologize.

You write a fine column indeed in Sports Afield, your style is a bit like the Icon of the magazine, IMO anyway- Thomas McIntyre. I also enjoy reading Mr. Shane Mahoney's first class column on Conservation.

I only just recently realized there is some connection between this DoubleGunShop website and the quarterly and very pricy magazine- The Double Gun Journal- the only copy I ever bought was about 2 years ago- when both Gander Mountain and Barnes & Noble booksellers were selling single copies, with Barnes & Noble being about $2.00 less than the GM rack price. I bought the issue with the great article about Hemingway in Paris as the Germans were fleeing the "City of Lights"- and a fine looking Belgium doublegun he may have owned or shot.

Harry Selby, Phillip Percival, Ernest Hemingway, Robert Ruark, Capstick, Selous, et al-- as Bogie said so well "The stuff that dreams are made of" Not grammatically correct, but with Bogie- who had the good taste to shoot a 20 gauge Grade 1E "Elsie"-- A-Ok with me. Happy Trails--

I'm glad you didn't. I never attended college, went right from HS into the USMC--I follwoed the example set by both my grandfather and father- master a skilled trade and work for an honest living- I was one of the few code certified welders in my time who held two Journeyman skilled trade cards (UAW and AFL-CIO) worked long hours and mastered TIG, MIG and of course SMAW welding in all positions, and yes, I am damn proud of that- and when some friggin "willie off the pickle boat" here posts some BS thread about welding and he obviously doesn't know his arse from his left elbow, you can damn well betcha I will "chime in" to prevent the dude asking the question from getting wrong information and messing up something due to that-- if that is "chest thumping" or hyperbole, then %$#@-it- and Now cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war- MF'r!!

Anyone have anything to contribute to the Winchester Model 61 remodel?

Just this.

I apologize for posting my comments re. the Winchester M12 solid rib & contributing to taking this thread further off track. I would however like to see a definite answer to the question of if there were some Model 12's manufactured with the rib integral with the barrel as Madis indicates and in what timeframe this was the practice. Perhaps this could be discussed in a new thread.

My thoughts on the M61 are a little different. I'm not wild about the full length rib idea. I would probably do a low 1/4 rib to match the contour of the receiver & with integral cuts for something like Talley QD rings so that a low powered intermediate eye relief scope could be mounted on the barrel along with open sights, bbl band for front sling swivel (would need to incorporate the hanger for the magazine tube) & banded ramp front sight along with nice wood & checkering. I might also shorten the tubular magazine to just in front of the slide as well.

I once saw a Model 71 Winchester .348 WCF that was set up in a similar manner & I thought it was very nice looking as well as a very functional & nice handling rifle & yes I realize we are talking about very different rifles & purposes.

Shortening the magazine sounds like a good appearance change on 61s and 121s. I like the quarter rib on a rifle, but still prefer the full solid rib for my Remington 121 shotgun.

One of the enjoyable aspects of this site is that once a thread is launched, there's no telling where it will go. But, thanks for all your responses. I've pretty much given up on the idea of a full length rib. A quarter rib seems more practical. A shortened magazine tube seems like a good ides too. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Come on Foxy fess up.....doesn't litigation represent some of your professional skills? At any rate I can put you to work (6 Tens)(Pass 2,3,4G positions) Trust me it's cold in ND and Canada though

Thank you Ken-- When I was running schedule SS- 308 water and steam piping for Townsend & Bottum in the Con Pow Co West Olive, MI Campbell Plant- and making $22.50/hr. plus overtime, two of my best friends went out to Tulsa and tested and passed API code in all positions (except the infamous "Arkansas Bell-hole" 5G inverted position)and ended up working- on the Pipeline- making $33.50/hr- 12 hours on- 12 off- 7 days working that shift- 7 days off- all clothing hoods, gloves and meals 4/24 hours- steak and eggs and home-fries and coffee- but when they went in "The World" South of Prudhome Bay area, and hit a bar and grille for some burgers and Buds-that $33.50/hr. went away really fast_also frostbite-

No litigation for me, but I have memorized both Mario Puzo's great novel "The Godfather" and nearly all of both Machiavelli's "The Prince" and Andre Dumas' "The Count of Monte Crisco", as I am an avid reader and observer, traits passed to me by my grandfather--

Speaking of litigation, what is black and tan and really looks sharp on a litigator arguing his case in Court? Answer- A Doberman. I have about as much use for lawyers as I do either prostitutes or politicians- all pretty much the same to me.

Just to make sure you have a "Lincoln Electric" background (I'm a native to the Buckeye State, home of both Lincoln Electric in Cleveland, and Hobart in Troy-- what is the name of the trade magazine Lincoln Electric publishes? Second question-- You are running 8" schedule black drainage pipe for waste water-beveled joints with a backing ring and full collared alignment clamps- the Foreman tells you to "weld 'em around the clock" with LH-70, Lincoln Electric's 7018 "Low-- Hydrogen" SMAW rod--

What diameter do you use for the root, fill and cap passes- and at what amperage setting, and do you run it AC or DC- and if DC, with which polarity. Just wanted to see if you are a lawyer, or a welder is all.

For the rest of the gruppen- 6-10's is 6010 pipe rod-- lINCOLN CALLS IT 5-P passes from root, fill and cap in 2g, 3g and 4g- are 2g- vertical down, 3g vertical up, and 4g- horizontal 5g is overhead, and 1G is flat or downhand- 6010 is AWS code for API code rod- the 60 means 60,000 psi tensile strength after the weld area is stress relieved, and 10 means- penetrating arc, as this rod can only be run set on DC reverse polarity, hard arc with light slag- fast freeze as Lincoln likes to call it--

Best rod like this for farmers who have a Lincoln AC 2225 60 AMP draw transformer welder is 6011- just as 6010, but the extra (1) means stabilizer to run on AC current, or DC either polarity-

Lincoln also makes another great API pipe rod-- called HYP-- it is a AWS 7010, 10K greater tensile- we ran it a lot in 1/8" dia for root pass work- and in the trade- we called it "Hippie Rod"--

I am heading in the right direction. I am taking the 121 shotgun to the gunsmith next Wednesday to get the mechanical problems out of the way. Then I can shoot it a bunch and decide whether the $500 rib is a good idea. I'm not that impressed with the collector value of a 121, even a Routledge bored one. For $500, Simmons will install the rib and reblue the gun. I will give instructions to be careful with the preparations.