doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help identify double shotgun!!

The scalloped action with the scroll engraving doesn't have any maker's name. It looks like several Kasuga guns that I have seen, but I doubt we will ever know for certain.

Hi Oganza! I just received this e-mail as a response for my request of information from Hamada & Sons on this shotgun:

Dear Mr.Ferreia.

Thank you for your E-Mail.
I think this shot gun were made by Matsui Gun Shop in Tokyo.
May be this is manufactured in 1950 & 1960.
Mr Matsui ceased his businness about late of 1980.

We are sorry our reply is so delay.


Shugo Hamada
Hamada & Son Ltd.

Do you know anything about this Japanese shotgun manufacturer? I did a web search and came up with this shotgun on sale at a shop in New Zealand:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/12g-matsui-side-by-side-xidp234507.html

There seem to be similarities to my shotgun but the image is not very clear unfortunately...

Here is another e-mail from Hamada following some more specific questions:

Dear Mr. Feieira

Sorry for delay response,
Yes sorry Matui, Matsui Mitsui are all same shotguns and were I think mostly really made by skband sent to US I said ending in late 80�s. Perhaps this shotgun is much older � may not be so, sorry I cannot identify for certain if markings are the japanse, it just seems like some shotguns ssen here in Japan long ago with wood really very much good for sure nice gun enjoy.

Shugo Hamada
Hamada & Son Ltd.

Well....based on this - I guess we are back to square one?
In retrospect I thing I remember seeing some Mitsui / SKB side by side shotguns in this forum...but I simply don't see the connection to this shotgun, or any of the Japanese guns posted on this forum thusfar - on my end skepticism remains that it is Japanese.
Any actual photos of any side by side Mitsui shotguns for comparison would be appreciated.

Luis,

Not sure if the following will help or further confuse things, but Ron Sharpe told me today that he supplies SKB parts to a fellow in the U.K. who works on Webley & Scott guns. Apparently the Japanese copied the W&S, so much so that the parts are interchangeable.

Luis,

The Mitsui SxS were the same SKB guns imported by Ithaca, models 100, 200 etc. After Ithaca broke the arrangement Mitsui marked SKB's were sold here in the US with the same model numbers in the 70's to early 80's.

The SKB boxlocks are a loose copy of Webley and Scott 700 series guns. Changes made to simplify manufacture. Not sure if parts would interchange. Possibly with some fitting.

Chief

I reluctantly agree that this could be a custom Japanese copy of a Webley however not the 700 because it has the treble grip screw action and the double set screw in the top lever like the comparison photo I posted earlier of a much higher grade boxlock.

Here is a larger view:

A few added comments: Although the small screw in the top lever of a gun with a rib extension is one clue that it MIGHT be a Screw Grip, there's an easy way to tell for sure: Break the gun open (or better yet, detach the barrels) and look at the slot in the standing breech. If you see threads in the slot, then it's a Screw Grip.

I don't believe the Mitsui SKB guns were imported past the late 70's. Didn't last long after Ithaca and SKB went their separate ways. I currently have a pretty unusual Mitsui SKB: 20ga Model 400 Skeet. I think all the Mitsui guns were clearly marked "SKB". Mine has "Made by SKB Arms Company Japan" on the right barrel; "SKB Model 400 20ga 2 3/4" Proof Tested" over "Mitsui & Co. (USA), Inc., Chicago, Ill." on the left barrel.

No threads ....so it is not an screw treble grip but a type of "hidden" rib extension third fastener (as seen on other Webley's - no bolt protrudes out of the action- a bar goes across and securely locks the rib extension in place.

But my point was that this is not specifically a copy of the Webley 700 because that model never had a rib extension with a third bite and no additional screw in the top lever either - also still don't know why the screw on the tang is off to the side.

Nice picture