doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Gun Vise?

Can anybody recommend a good one for cleaning and/or working on a rifle?

Versa vise is what I have used for over thirty years. I'm sure there are others out there that will do the job as well.

https://www.google.com/#q=versa+vise

Just a big swivel bench vise has been my choice for the last 45+yrs. A set or two of wooden safety jaws is a must of course. One set flat,,one V notched is about all you need.
When they wear out,,and they do if you do enough work, make another set
Extra padding when handling delicate finished items.
If you reload shotshells or know someone that does, save the canvas shot bags,,they make nice padding.

Smooth surface on the steel vise jaws themselves,,you don't want the type w/the teeth in them .
The big plain swivel bench vise on a solid mounting gets my vote.
Nothing fancy.

One shop I worked in had Versa Vises set up at all the benches. They were OK for light weight jobs and cleaning chores, but I didn't care for them for regular gunsmithing work. Too much vibration when working .

I guess it depends on what you have in mind to do.
JMO and experience...

Grizzly has a version of the old Versa-Vise at a pretty good price, as well as bench vises and other special purpose vises.I think it is convienent to have more than one vise.I have two bench vises and a versavise set up as well as a small swivel base toolmaker style vise mounted on a 2x4, which I clamp in one of the other vises.This doesn't include my homemade barrel vise. You can't work w/o a good vise.
Mike

Mike, do you have a website address for Grizzly? Googling grizzly I get grizzly gunworks, but they seem to just deal in custom muzzlebrakes and the like

I use an old Emmert pattern makers vise, with 18" jaws, the front one of which can be swiveled to accommodate tapered objects such as fore arms. The whole vise also pivots vertically through 90�, making work positioning a snap. For 'rigorous' applications I use a regular old heavy duty bench vise, maker unknown (and I'm too lazy to go look at it!).

Krakow Kid,
They are Grizzly Industrial. Try grizzly.com,tel.1-800-523-4777. I think they will still send a catalog free in US,I don't know about overseas postage. The owner is a shooter and has a gunsmithing section and a seperate division that also has bullets,cases,etc.
Mike

Grizzly has great prices but cheap quality too.

Grizzly products are inexpensive and in my opinion you get a
second rate product from them. I had to rework or throw out everything I purchased from them.

Only occasionally am I so foolish ... like the drills from Tractor Supply ... which wouldn't cut steel in my machining centers ... it was an emergency brought on by poor planning on my part and a customer emergency.

I have champagne taste and a beer budget and I admit it.

With 5 work benches I use an Emmert pattermakers vise, Wilton pattern makers vise,Parker bench vise and Ohio Tool and Columbian woodworking vises on my cabinet makers benches.I have a couple of small jeweler type vises attached to a wood block that I put in a big vise for smaller work.And a Zyliss for attaching anywhere that I might need it.

Wilton~Wilton~Wilton~Wilton on the benches. Along with, 4 drillpress, 2 mill, mini, swivel, pana etc. etc, etc.
The last two 4" Wilton Cadet,used, eBay $130-$160, good buys at that.
You'd think this a whorehouse-casino-opium den-moshe pit with all the vises I've got around here.
� and one of those halfass plastic gun vises I never use. And a perfectly good Columbian USA I'd sell cheap.

Jerry Fisher has two big Parkers with swivel jaw, one for more than 40 years.

OY! With all these conflicting posts I feel like going in the cellar and putting my head in a vise! I guess if I have to go mobile and drive around today I can wear a C-clamp....

But I don't want to sound ungrateful, as I do appreciate all the advice you guys took the time to post.

Harris Highwall,
You are correct that theirs is not "Bridgeport", but we all don't do this for a living and can't depreciate the cost of equipment.I'll have to admit I have only bought small "stuff" from them, but the quality is on par with price. BTY, except for the "Heavy 10", Grizzly carries all the South Bends, Buck Chucks, Pratt Burnerd chucks;not too many people think they are cheap. I find that if I work the "off brand" drills over first with my Darax,they usually drill.No one thinks my time is worth anything, so this doesn't cost me any thing.Their Chinese gunsmith lathes have some good features(BTY Southbend is made in China now, as are a lot of other American Names).
Mike

Hi Marc,
Probably far more important then the vise you buy is the setting up of the vise. You can buy any good quality vise (good quality!) and it will work fine. Man if shipping wasn't so expensive I would give you one.

Setup: #1 if the bench is wimpy the vise will suck. Make sure it is rigid. #2 Height is very important, when you stand next to the vise the top of the jaws should be the same height as your elbow. If the height isn't right you can not file square. Everything you do will be tapered (at an angle)

As suggested earlier use only smooth faced jaws no knurl or teeth. Make a set of wooden jaw covers. I actually made my jaws out of brass and the wooden jaws pin on to the brass so they stay in place.

If when you buy a vise and the jaws have teeth take them to a machine shop and have the teeth surface ground to remove them.

Call if you have a question, you have my number.

Well, Mike, you just sent my mood plummeting. "Southbend is made in China now".........

But you know what's really sad? I wasn't that surprised.

The South Bend company is long gone. Grizzly bought the name and produces lathes under that name which bear no resemblance to any original South Bend lathe. They are warmed over Chinese imports. They are not among the worst of the import lathes, but carry a higher price tag due to the South Bend name tag.

Mike,

You are right ... machinist stuff is very expensive.

I think we almost all face the bang for the buck issues...
just trying to help.

to save money I would advise high quality made in USA
at auction cheap

not imported junk that is a handicap

I mostly use smaller drills
buy the best I can find
use till loosing their edge and throw them out

Harris,
Most of my equipment is American,from auctions,Flea markets,or want adds, including real South Bend, Clausing,Index,Brown and Sharp, and Atlas.Its hard to say worn out/abused American Equipment is that much better than new Foreign "stuff".A lot of people are not inclined to take apart and rebuild an american lathe or mill and I'm too old to do it again.It often comes down to the question of buying something you can afford,or forget the whole thing and waste your time on golf.

Sounds like experience talking LOL JK

No, not yet.I just bought what I could afford and learned to live with it.
Mike

Wilton, Parker & Snow, Columbia- I do have a spare 4" swivel bench vise with [pipe jaws and aluminum pads I'd consider selling, but the freight costs would be a *&^%$-- Love the whorehouse analogy here- "Only a pimp in a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would have a cheap chink-made Wally-Mart rinky dink vise"!!!

Pack it in one or two flat rate boxes and be done with it.

FWIW, 12 iron (1/4") hard sole leather works fine for vice jaws. Stick it on knurled or plain steel jaws with Barge's cement. Hard enough for metal, soft enough for wood.
Chuck

I've wet-molded heavy leather vise jaws for a few decades for all day use. I have bronze, square steel, heavy cast lead, light sheet lead and aluminum octagon jaws for other application. The leather is soaked, vise jaws closed together then they are tied in place with rope until they dry.
Note the cork-faced one in the background (behind gun barrel) Only used to clamp wood. Brownells sells perfectly sized heavy leather for 4" jaws.

Vises is one of my vises, lot's of good info here..

Garage Journal Vise info thread...


and over 600 pages of pics and Q&A of vises.


I use this for holding stocks, not great but passable.



Versa-Vise copy, handy but not very stable.




Parker hale to bring to the range...




3-1/2" Colombian on the cleaning bench, I use lead shields and hold shotgun barrels by the lug for cleaning.



And soon to move down to the main bench, a 4" Yost with swivel base and a swivel "static" jaw,





unless I get around to restoring one of 2 Parkers hanging around the garage.

Run with the Fox
That seems like a pretty elitist remark.It's not the work that goes into the vise(or other equipment)that counts,rather it is the work that comes out of it.Who among us can start with all top line equipment.
Mike

Nice Vises Rob!
Keep your eyes open for a Wilton, a joy forever�

(That's "hammered blue" Wilton color under my leather jaws)
All my student workstations are now Wilton equipped.

Gentlemen - Let me first thank all of you for all your contributions to this thread. Some hit the mark as far as what I was envisioning and others may not have, but were interesting to read and very worthwhile in their own right.

Secondly, let me apologize for the tardiness of this reply. Life has a funny way of getting your attention in ways you didn't plan for.

Now then. To start with my benches, I need to start with the house. A brick Cape with slate roof built by my father and his brother in the 30's. My uncle was a machinist on his way to owning his own small company, my father a carpenter on his way to civil engineering.

My uncle welded some steel together and used it with a horse to dig the foundation of the cellar. The two benches in the cellar were his. I'll attempt to describe them.

#1. heavy steel frame bolted to the floor, topside measures 6' x 40". it is made of wood "slats", 1 1/4" x 2", all squeezed together and bolted tight.

#2. same deal with the frame. 10' 10" x 30". There are 3 beams, each 8" x 30" running the entire length, even spaced and bolted. Topside: Some kind of wooden bed with wood "slats" 2 1/4" x 30"

Unfortunately, they need to be cleaned off of accumulated junk and organized. Right now I just have little "areas" cleaned away. The smaller benches have 2 presses bolted in, a Rockchucker and a Lee turret. Never used the RCBS, am planning to handload rifle with it. The Lee was used exclusively for handgun cartridges for many years but hasn't been used since oh, I'd say '97 or so.

Anyway I just wanted to answer all the questions about the stability of the bench where the vise will go.

I see I am going to have to add "Yost swivel jaw" to my list of regular e-bay searches. Very cool vise. Never seen one before.

John

Steven

Wiltons all around, I�m envious.

Interesting idea on the leather vise jaws/cap. Is it easy to remove, or are they semi-permanent?

I�ve got leather glued to hickory inserts that I use in my vises, but quite often I will swap them out for aluminum depending on the job.

US made vises are the only way to go; I�ve probably broken half a dozen or so cheap import vises before I got smart.


V/R

Mike

Recoil Rob, your unrestored vise seems to be another Parker, but it's hard to tell how big it is.

I visited Al Lind about a year and a half ago and took photos of his pattern makers vise. If anyone ever makes these again, I will buy one!

Mike, The leather has a bit of a spring to it when molded, slips right on & off, holds perfectly in place when in use, each set lasts for several years with daily use. Will interchange front to back but I mark mine to go back on the same jaw.
Check Brownells for perfect size leather.
BTW I used Wilton vises in GS school but a cheap Craftsman (USA) for the first 10 years of my career. Buying a brand-new Wilton was a milestone, both in accomplishment and in the ease of daily use of a professional vise. When I set-up a bench for a helper I bought another new Wilton. Outfitting two more benches for students I found used Wilton Cadets on eBay. One is torn apart waiting with a spray can of hammered blue for the weather to warm up.

Steven

Thanks,

I may give it a shot. I made some specialized tooling for a saddle maker once, he paid me in leather I've got two 30 gal trash can full of the stuff.

V/R

Mike

Dennis you can buy these type vises Pattern Makers Vise

Thank you.

Yes, thank you, Lynn. A cursory look showed promise from these folks.

Please note that the rear jaw is articulated on Al Lind's vise and I think the repo does not have this feature. Articulation allows the jaws to firmly grip shapes that do not have parallel sides and this is something quite important for vise versatility.

Reviews of the repo are spotty. Would be nice to actually see one. $440 is a lot of money for a vise, I think.

Look at the pictures on that site closely and you will see the fixed jaw articulates, lower left pic of a guitar neck you can see the jaws are not parallel.

It is, a 4" swivel base. When it warms up enough I'll put it in the electrolysis tank and then repaint it. Be a toss up as to which to put on the bench, Yost for it's swivel jaw or Parker for Cool Factor.

Steve, been looking for a deal on a Wilton for a while now, I keep checking CL and tags sales. Some day I'll get one. What size Wiltons do you use, 4"?

I have run out of benches for my Parker vises. Unfortunately, my big railroad vise doesn't swivel, so it is useless for many projects. But it is so cool, I can't bear to take it off the bench. I'm not looking for a Wilton as long as I have my Parkers.

Rob, Three 4", two Cadets and a 4 1/2" Tradesman bought new 12 years ago. $400+ then.
A good used Wilton is better than most others.

One of my students brought his grandfathers vise to show off last year, a 5" Wilton, probably 35 years old, long from worn out. He won't�

Parker vises sure have a cool factor!

Anyone looking for an original Bisley rifle vise, here's one for auction....

Bisley vise.

The German Gun Collector's Assn.had some for sale,I would guess they still do.They are fighting web problems right now, but these will be corrected in the end.If you want a Bisley vise and can't find one,check with GGCA.
Mike

Vises are also one of my vices... Watch your local Craigslist and auctions for a good old vise from an english speaking country(mostly USA, but some good ones are from the UK and AU) I lucked into the bench with both vises at an auction, shown in the thread below.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3369781#post3369781
posts 10463 & 464

For a bench vise, the ideal, would be a swivel jaw fileworkers vise, or coachmakers vise, that have shallower jaws. The allow you to angle your tools more, without having your work high above the jaws.
Wilton vises are very good quality, and I grew up using one, but they are not my favorite, simply because the round beam does not lend itself well to stacking up pieces of scrap, to hold your work up to the jaws. Sometimes you need a third hand to push a pin, or compress a spring. One of these days, I am going to mount a vise vertically, at eye level for this reason, so gravity will work for you, instead of against you. If I had to pick a brand, it would probably be Athol (Starret). They seem to have a bit better workmanship, as well as a buttress thread, that is very smooth, and a finer pitch, increasing clamping force, although a little slower.

This one is pretty interesting:

Wilton Swivel Vise

Looks like it could have its place sharing the work bench with a good bench vise. Any one have one?

I have one that I bought off ebay several years ago for $50.I haven't mounted it yet as I don't really need it right now. Very nice vise.I really like the swiveling feature on a vise.

I have one each of the original Parker Hale Bisley vises (still new in the box) and the newer one made in Germany which I actually use at the range.

The original Parker Hale looks better, the new German one is a bit more practical.

New one on sale at Brownells.

Bought an old Wilton on eBay to go with my larger Chicom vise and I'm in the process of rehabbing it. I stumbled upon this guy for parts and he was great to deal with. Got a set of smooth replacement jaws cheaper than I could have them surface ground and a replacement horseshoe washer.

Just thought I'd pass along one of the "good guys".

Thanks for the link on WIlton parts.

If you don't have a least one decent vise in a solid mount, you don't have anything. In 1991 I bought this Wilton model 500 machinest's vise for the ungodly price of $291. I'm pretty sure the same vise, new, would set you back most of 1K today.



I built the mount from a piece of 4140, drawn over mandrel, seemless, hydraulic tubing-it was for a two stage ram of some sort, polished internally and externally, with 1/4 inch wall. I welded flanges on it to mount the vise and to bolt it to the floor. I didn't need a swivel feature, as it is mounted far enough away from the bench that I can walk all the way around it.
The mount has been filled with spent lead shot, making it a "dead blow" vise mount.
The Wilton jaw caps have rubber faces on an aluminum body, and have been all I have needed so far for delicate work.
Not mentioned by the buy-an-old-vise guys is the fact that the newer Wiltons have a keyway and a key on the jaws that keep them in perfect alignment as you draw the vise down. Having used one, I wouldn't buy a vise that didn't have that feature today. You don't get that on the cheaper Wiltons, either.


Best,
Ted

Kinda off the topic but I have most of an Emmert K1 pattern makers vise that I would like to sell or trade. It is missing the rod and bracket to tie it to a bench and the tilt plate otherwise complete and in good shape with no cracks or welds. I bought a Tucker vise a while back and have no use for the Emmert.It weighs nearly 100 pounds crated and I value it at about $500 give or take.Like old fishing reels and could use a big elk or moose rack.Or?Pm please.

Refuburbished 4" Wilton Cadet as mounted at one of the work stations for my Stockmaking Seminars. The shop is now All Wilton, all the time ;>).

Advanced Stockmaking classes will be forming in January for meeting in June or Sept. 2015. These will feature stock shaping from a walnut blank with hand tools. If anyone is interested they should check my web site and contact me soon.
BTW: That color is called "Hammered Blue" a term that reminds me of bourbon & heartbreak...

That 5" Wilton sounds familiar...and you're right, I won't!

The Shiller Park address indicates the vise was manufactured after 1955-57, which is when Wilton moved to that address. Prior to that, they were marked Chicago.

The bullet vises have a date stamped on the key on the bottom of the ram. Depending on when manufactured, this date is the date of manufacture or five years after the date of manufacture which is when the guarantee expired. My 4-1/2" Wilton is stamped 6-48, which means it was manufactured in 1943, three years later than me.

A short history of Wilton here;
http://junkyardtools.com/tool_history/wilton

Good to know, Jim. I just checked mine and it was stamped 12 68. So presumably it was made around December of 1963? Very cool!

So I had to get me one of those swiveling jaw vises after seeing them here. So far its a great addition, and its spot is on the edge of my main work bench.

After getting my first one about a year ago, I am up to three now. I just can't believe how well they work. The one thing I did find is that you will want to plug the pin hole when using the swivel feature. On some of them the opposite end of the pin is tapered so you just turn it over to use as a plug, but just be careful, they long end sticking up sometimes has a sharp point on it and can be hard on the knuckles when you drag then across it when using a file.

Regards,
John Holliger

Makes you wonder why there are no modern offerings of this design.

Two recent additions to the shop. A 3 1/2" Wilton Bullet for a seminar workstation. And a 2" #920 non-swivel base is mounted on a Power Arm Jr. and is almost infinitely adjustable. This will be mouted behind my main bench so I can turn around, clamp and file on a small part without taking the stock, or main workpiece out of my 4" Wilton on the bench.
I've coveted these mini-Wiltons for years!
These cost about $300 each delivered and I consider that a good price!
Do I have a vise vice, or visa-versa?