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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142 |
I have a 12 bore single shot gun with 2 1/2 chamber. It's a KFC Model 100 (Kawaguchiya Firearms Company) that I picked up in Japan. It's a really nice looking well made gun with an extractor vice ejector. I'm trying to get some estimate on its age, but the only clue I have is that its chamber is only 2 1/2 inches. At what point did guns start moving to 2 3/4" ? Thanks for any help.
Sincerely, Patrick
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142 |
I found a post with a quote from Brownell's that stated shotguns went from 2.5" chambers to 2.75" in the 1920's and by 1930 most guns were 2.75".
Does anyone have different information?
Thanks.
Sincerely, Patrick
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106 |
Patrick, the problem is that the gun is Japanese. In Europe, for example, the 2 1/2" chamber remained the standard far longer than it did here in the States.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
And from my observations the Japanese Shotgun makers copied the Brits.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Skeettx,
Thanks - but the military markings don't apply to the sporting guns.
Many Japanese guns have not proof marks - only serial numbers. Miroku is the best company that I've seen for marking the flats and action. Even SKB was poor in marking the guns. I'll post a few pictures if I can.
Sincerely, Patrick
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142 |
L. Brown and Postoak,
Thanks - I agree that Japan copied a lot of English guns and I suspect Japan held onto 2 1/2 " chambers longer than the U.S. but I don't really know.
Sincerely, Patrick
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 142 |
Sincerely, Patrick
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 594 Likes: 12 |
Patrick
I have just had a look at Teesdale-Buckell. He first published his book in 1900. In the section on patterns there are many diagrams with tables, detailing amongst other data the length of cartridge used. Whilst the majority are, unsurprisingly, 21/2" in length, there are examples using 23/4" and one of 3".
This would indicate both the availability of longer cartridges at that time, as well as guns chambered for them. I'm afraid all this does is make it even more tricky to date your gun. I appreciate that your question is more concerned with when 23/4" chambered guns became more generally available. Though I have little to back it up, my thought is that would be in the post WWII era.
Tim
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
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Tim,
The dates you have for 2 3/4 becoming available makes sense - and are close to what I posted about Brownell, but I'm hoping to see when 2 1/2" chambers were generally NOT used any more. Then I would would say this gun is at least that old. Any thoughts on that?
Sincerely, Patrick
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