March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
2 members (fuhrmann, earlyriser), 694 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,016
Members14,391
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
William Moore was born in 1781. In 1808 he was recorded as being in business (description of business unknown) at 118 Whitechapel. He was also recorded as being a stocker for Joseph Manton, probably from 1809 to 1820. It is possible that he was related to Charles Moore of the firm of that name (and later Moore & Woodward).

From 1818 to 1853 William Moore lived at Colchester Road, Edgeware. In 1820 he established his own business at that address, but by 1828 his trade had increased to the point where he required larger premises so he opened a shop at 78 Edgeware Road.

In 1829 he opened a stock making business at Court, 4 Whittall Street, Birmingham. This may also have been a purchasing office and finishing workshop.

In 1835 a percussion lock developed by Moore was rejected by the Board of Ordnance.

In 1836 William Moore was appointed Gunmaker-in-Ordinary to King William IV, and in that year the name of the firm changed to William Moore & Co.

In 1837 or 1838 the firm were appointed gunmakers to Prince Albert.

Also in 1837 the business at Court, 4 Whittall Street moved to 35 Loveday Street, it was recorded up to 1845.

In 1838 William Moore and William Harris became partners in the firm of Moore & Harris, also at 35 Loveday Street, William Harris also traded from these premises in his own name (it is likely that William Harris was related to Alfred Harris who traded as a gun barrel maker in Birmingham - see Joseph Harris of Lionel Street).

In 1840 the partnership was recorded at 36 Loveday Street trading as gun and pistol makers; at least some of the guns sold were marked Moore & Harris, London, the partnership probably used William Moore's address. The firm appears to have supplied the trade as well as William Moore in London, some of the guns sold were marked "London" and were proved in London. The partnership also developed an export trade to the USA.

William Moore was recorded in the 1841 census livng at 78a Edgeware Road with his wife, Sarah (b.1806) and a servant. No other census entries have been found. The 1851 census records 78a Edgeware Road as being a milliner's shop.

From 1840 to 1845 William Moore also traded in his own name as a gunsmith from 35 Loveday Street. Harris ceased trading in his own name in 1845.

In 1847 William Moore and William Parker Grey, who had been clerk and then manager for Joseph Manton, went into partnership in London at 78 Edgeware Road, they operated as Wm Moore & Grey but Wm Moore also continued to trade as Wm Moore & Co, presumably in respect of specific aspects of his business.

In 1852 William Moore and William Harris patented a percussion revolver which was produced in limited quantities (patent No. 69).

In 1854 William Moore and William Grey started to trade as William Moore & Grey from 43 Old Bond Street, but William Grey and his son, F H Grey, also started to trade as William Grey & Son at 41 Old Bond Street. William Moore may also have traded from 43 Old Bond Street as William Moore & Co. Between 1854 and 1859 the firm of William Moore and William Grey, like William Moore & Co, were appointed gunmakers to Prince Albert.

By 1859 in Birmingham, Moore & Harris had expanded into barrel and lock making and in 1861 they moved to the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill.

In 1861 Frederick Beesley was apprenticed to William Grey at William Moore & Co at 43 Old Bond Street.

In 1862 the partnership of William Moore and William Harris exhibited military and sporting guns at the International Exhibition in London.

Between 1862 and 1865 the firm advertised the fact that guns not made by them were being engraved with the name Wm Moore & Co, London.

In 1864, perhaps because of temporary financial problems (American Civil War contracts ending?) or because William Moore died (no date is known), the business at the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill was sold at auction; the buyers were a partnership composed of "Moore and Harris" and a Mr Richards. The Moore could have been William Moore or his wife, or William Moore Jnr (?), Mr Richards was probably Westley Richards.

However, the new partnership closed within a year and the business was sold to W & C Scott & Son who valued the firm's USA export market. The firm of Moore & Harris, perhaps now owned by William Harris, probably moved to London, they were known to have been trading in 1867 from 2 Long Acre, London. When they ceased trading is not known, but it may have been prior to 1870 or even up to 1877.

In 1866 Henry Atkin moved from Purdey to work for the firm, he founded his own business in 1877.

In 1867 F H Grey, who by this time had probably taken over from his father, patented internal strikers on hammer guns (No. 2743).

In about 1873 the name of the Moore & Grey partnership may have temporarily changed to William Moore, Grey & Co. In 1878 the firm became a limited liability company, William Moore & Grey Ltd but in 1889 it reverted to unlimited liability.

In 1893, when the Inanimate Bird Shooting Association was formed, a "Mr Harris of Moore & Grey" attended. Apparently, he ran the Wealdstone Gun Club which was based at Harrow.

At some time prior to 1896 the firm registered a patent (No. 18582) for an automatic safety (rifle locks and triggers?).

In 1896 the firm moved to 165 Piccadilly and in 1902 to 8 Craven Street, Strand. In about 1897 they opened a branch at 11 The Arcade, Aldershot; Aldershot was and still is the "home" of the British army. It appears that, in common with other gunmakers at the time, the firm's sales did not warrant in-house gunmaking facilities, and that they were buying guns from Cogswell & Harrison.

In 1908 Cogswell & Harrison took over the firm, and Robert Grey joined them. This was probably when the Aldershot branch closed.

In 1917 Cogswell & Harrison moved the company to their own premises at 226 Strand and William Moore & Grey ceased to trade under their own name.

In 1928 Robert Grey died, also in that year Cogswell & Harrison left the Strand and operated only from 168 Piccadilly. They later included a "Moorgrey" model in their range of guns, this was a low priced model which was never very popular.

Some records of the company are held by Cogswell & Harrison.


Names used by the firm:
William Moore & Co; Moore & Harris; Wm Moore & Grey; Wm Moore Grey & Co; Wm Moore & Grey; William Moore & Grey (Ltd)

Addresses used
118 Whitechapel
Colchester Road, Edgeware
78 Edgeware Road (Colchester Road, Edgeware)
43 Old Bond Street
165 Piccadilly
8 Craven Street, Strand

(The IGDB is back grin)

Pete

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 4
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 4
I have a nice William Moore & CO. 12ga , stamped London, fine twist. It has Birmingham proofs,serial # 50. It is definitely not a Belgium takeoff and has excellent workmanship and rebounding hammers. chokes are cyl/cyl and appears to me to be an 1870ish gun.After reading all of the above I am not sure about the period and any comments are welcome.
[img:left][/img]
[img:left][/img]
[img:left][/img]


Last edited by Stallones; 03/10/13 05:08 PM.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 11
Sidelock
****
Offline
Sidelock
****

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 11
PeteM,
For many years I owned a fine percussion gun by Moore and Woodward.Records show that this business was at 64 St;James Street, London, 1850-1872.There appears to have been be a relationship between this maker and William Moore In that the the inside face of the locks of this gun were engraved ,"Wm,M&Co;"!
Woodward went on to found his own business which over time resulted in the development of his over and under gun.
What are your thoughts on this possible business relationship?


Roy Hebbes
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
William Moore and Grey. Grey's patent with cocking levers that look like pinfire hammers, but the strikers and firing pins are inside the gun. Circa 1870


Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 03/10/13 08:39 PM.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Roy,

Interesting. As I look deeper into the 19th century business dealings within the gun trade, I find many "relationships". They seemed to come and go. Some were formed around a specific contract. Some as a result of marriage. Some as a prelude to merger. Some to share resources. All sorts of reasons.

What is your take on the Moore - Woodward relationship?

Pete

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
pete: great bio of william moore. thank you


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Stallones, with the style of you gun I would think around 1868; give or take a year. Lagopus.....

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
I, too, have a Moore & Harris. 2 barrels, triggers & hammers. "Moore & Harris. London." in vertical block letters and then "Laminated Steel" in slanted, slightly smaller block engraved letters on the sighting rib between the barrels. There is an engraved flying duck or goose or some kind of long-necked bird on the left side with "Moore & Harris" engraved in slanted block letters. On right there is an engraved walking pheasant and a repeat of "Moore & Harris" in engraved slanted block letters. There are engraved curlicues on the sides, on the hammers, on the inlaid metal piece where the barrels leave the stock and where the ramrod goes into the stock. The ramrod has a bronze knob that fits between and under the barrels and the knob must be pulled slightly from the barrels to clear the block below and between the barrels that holds the ramrod secure. The trigger guard has an engraved flying goose and curlicues. The guard curves around the triggers and is inlaid into the bottom of the stock and is engraved with the number "5381' with more curlicues. I inherited it from my father, who was active in Republican politics in the late 40s and early 50s, when he died in 1983. He received it as a gift from Democratic Senator Dennis Chavez of New Mexico, who was, I believe, a hunting buddy. Senator Chavez died in 1962. I do not intend to sell it but will add it to my collection to pass to my grandsons. Should I send it to someone to "clean and tune up" . I do not want to spend big bucks for a restoration. I saw some names of antique guns specialists somewhere on this site but not in this thread. I don't want to let someone mess it up. I suspect it has good value but not sure how much. It is not for sale. Any help would be appreciated. I took 15 photos but do not know how to get them on the site.


Lee
NRA Benefactor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 820
Likes: 1
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 820
Likes: 1
I have a buddy that hunted with a 10 gauge William Moore of London gun last week.Thanks for the Bio I will forward.


monty
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
http://s944.photobucket.com/user/walterleedavisjr/library/

I think the above is a link to my photos of my Moore & Harris, as described in post #350982.

skeettx --- thanks for the pm info on how to get the pictures here.


Lee
NRA Benefactor
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.087s Queries: 35 (0.058s) Memory: 0.8655 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 10:21:45 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS