doublegunshop.com - home Forums what is tight? what is on face?

I have been selling vintage double guns for about 30 years now...occasionally something new comes up. most recently, sold a 100 year old, more or less, English boxlock sxs by Charles Osborne to a fellow in new jersey...gun locks up tight, is on face and is a good shooter with rst light loads...customer contacted me and claimed gun was loose and off face...when I questioned him, he revealed that the gun was loose with forend off. we never did get around to discussing what he ment by off face. I suspect that he was taking about the fit of the hinge pin to the hook..in my experience, old used guns are often loose when the forend is removed. this is normal wear...one does not shoot guns without the forend...so why would one not be satisfied that the gun is tight and on face when fully assembled? in my opinion, this individual had unrealistic expectations for an old used gun. what do you say?

Ed: It sounds like your customer is likely right and the gun is 'off face'. If one removes the forearm and the barrels wiggle, the gun is off face or in other words, it needs to be rejointed. Ejectors can hide the fact a gun is off face and really one needs to dismantle the ejectors to see if a gun is actually off face. Hate to give you the bad news, but if I was your customer I would be a bit upset too if I was told the gun was 'tight' prior to purchase and receiving it. Also, if 'off face' there is excessive head space which causes more recoil and will worsen wear in a rapid fashion. It needs to be repaired.

The customer is very right. Ed, you know crap about guns. Return the man's money. Just once, do something right.

Give a man enough rope and he will hang himself.

SRH

so if the gun locks up tight, with no wiggle, when fully assembled, that is not good enough? after all, one does not shoot guns without the forend.

and I always defined off face as having visible space between the breechs and the rear of the receiver...seems like it also has to do with the fit of the hinge pin to the barrel hook.

as for returns, I try to do what is fair to all parties, including the buyer, the consigner and of course your truly.

Ed,
YOU know damn well about whats on face (and whats correct case color) yet you continue to rip unknowing people off. You bend levers,keep guns open a bit to hide wear.Your "return policy is bogus. Your a LIAR and THIEF.


Ed, I and others on here are concerned that you really need some mental help,there is something very wrong with you-looks at the last two pages over 20 threads looking for attention.You continue to sell the same old story (low heat,don't know what off face is) and its obvious YOU KNOW BETTER.

You NEED to go see a doctor and get some meds.

dave: read your posts...you seem to have a lot of anger...guess its better that you let it out here...

You need help Ed,you know your a thief and play the "I don't know whats off face" BS,same with Case color,same with return policy.You NEED help-just look at all the threads in the last two pages by you.

Start here and go get help ED;

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8098031

There's a Jack Rowe video over at Midway that's titled something to the effect of 'British Double Shotguns'. It seems to be a good walk through of evaluating the major types and features of those classic side by sides. Not saying it's the grail on the topic, but to this point I haven't noticed any criticism of the content. It can be replayed for clarification and it won't change its mind.

Personally, I'm not so sure fairness is a concept that will mean the same thing to different folks. When ever that old saying 'life is not fair' comes up, that just means two folks are probably 180* apart. Other vague terms can be substituted like smart, advantageous, expedient, etc.

Ed, if you sold the gun to me as tight and on-face, and was loose with the forend off when I opened the package, I'd be disappointed and would feel you had erred in description and had not acted in good faith.

I believe you would have offered some accommodation to make it right, to have a satisfied customer. I don't think you would feel right otherwise, to be able to sleep easily or go about your business with your usual cheerful mien.

PS: My new 12ga Silver Pigeon 1 Hunting Model arrived yesterday, perfect for me in every way. If it wasn't as described, I expected the same integrity as mentioned above, no distinction between a 500-year-old company and you.